Can I train on punching but keep my lifting strength?

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by jaksun, Feb 22, 2014.

  1. jaksun

    jaksun New Member

    So I know for a fact that lifting heavy weights isn't going to make you punch harder. Strength and Power are two different things. I lift to increase muscle mass and for the strength needed for grappling (I stress grip strength as well).

    But I also want to have punching game. Is it possible to have the best of both worlds? Have great lifting strength and also become a champion puncher?

    I read in an article somewhere that punching and lifting use different types of muscles. Something to do with fast twitch vs. slow twitch muscles.

    Also I feel that if I work on leg strength and the spin on my hips I can deliver a powerful punch without pulling too hard on my arm muscles.
     
  2. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    You can use less weight and move your weight faster to develop "explosive power".

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTra_NyE4pY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTra_NyE4pY[/ame]
     
  3. jaksun

    jaksun New Member

    This won't mess up my slow lifting strength muscles right?

    I've been looking up on slow and fast twitch muscles. Also heard about the third twitch muscle known as the hybrid muscle fibers (which has the best of both worlds). Would intense lifting build hybrid muscle fibers?
     
  4. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Maximum weight does not work well with maximum speed. You may tear your muscle. The slow lift with maximum weight is "constant speed". The fast lift with less weight is "explosive speed". The "explosive speed" is what you will need in combat.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2014
  5. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Didn't seem a problem for most people....

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-naLmYJrEQ0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-naLmYJrEQ0[/ame]
     
  6. Gripfighter

    Gripfighter Sub Seeker

    There is a bit more to punching power than just raw Stregnth anyway
     
  7. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Do you only ever lift slowely?
     
  8. Lad_Gorg

    Lad_Gorg Valued Member

    What does your lifting schedule look like? If you're lifting 2 hours everyday, you're probably doing more bad than good.

    But I digress. In days that you aren't lifting, say a cardio day, you should fit in some bag work as well. I won't recommend doing them both in the same session since you could end up sky rocketing your cortisol and ruining the development of both.

    Ultimately, punching is more about proper technique than what muscle type you're using. But of course, technique takes time and experience to develop, which means bag work. So get at it.
     
  9. jaksun

    jaksun New Member

    I do calisthenics currently used to do weight lifting but I try and imitate weight lifting but using my body as the weight instead (like pushups and pull ups) though thinking of getting a membership again.

    So as long as I practice on the technique and bag work I can improve my punching power without sacrificing my strength?
     
  10. Gripfighter

    Gripfighter Sub Seeker

    Strength is relative though isn't it, you made out in your first post (at least it seemed to me) that your concern is your numbers will go down on the main heavy barbell lifts or on weight machines or something to that effect if you work on your punching to much, now your saying you do body weight training so strength for what exactly. Though you can keep track of general progression by upping the difficulty of the exercises Maximal strength is a difficult thing to measure exactly with body weight training so are you likely to notice a massive difference in your daily life or your strength training probably not.
     
  11. Lad_Gorg

    Lad_Gorg Valued Member

    I think you doing callisthenics is what will limit your strength more than bag work xD
    If you're really concerned about strength get back into the gym.

    But to answer your question, these types of things don't really fall into the "or" category. So no, building fast twitch doesn't directly limit your slow twitch, and if you work to develop both you will in fact develop both. But more importantly, don't get to caught up in what type of muscle you are developing, just work on developing functional muscles.

    Technique is a bit more of an abstract topic. Technique deals with how the muscles are used as a collective rather than what muscles (type and strength) are being used. So here you deal with economy of motion and counter muscles groups. Bruce Lee has dedicated of a lot of time to this topic, so pick up anyone of his books (the Tao for example) to get a better idea of what I mean. Bruce Lee is actually a perfect example of how developing proper technique doesn't limit over all muscle growth and strength.

    BTW, do you have a martial arts teacher? If not I highly suggest getting one since they'll help with developing proper technique.
     
  12. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    The "bulldozer strength (constant speed)" may not have much value in the striking art, it has some value in the grappling art.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2014
  13. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    @OP

    Start doing some 5x5 training in the big compound lifts, some 3x3 days as well. Just focus on moving 90% of your max in those lifts along with mobility work. Come back in a month and tell us how your punches feel.
     
  14. righty

    righty Valued Member


    If you train both for their own sakes then you are unlikely to be a world champion in either, that is just being realistic and it's as much to do with the amount of training time, energy and recovery you can afford to give each one when training at that high a level.

    But yes you can get very good at both.

    I would not worry about fast/slow twitch muscles. Weight training when done properly will primarily train your fast twitch fibres, which are the same ones you will need for a powerful punch. Whoever said weight training focuses on training slow twitch fibres is doing it wrong or has no clue.

    Yes you will need slow twitch fibres more for boxing in comparison but this is more for the endurance aspect of a boxing match e.g keep your feet and body moving, keep muscles activated to make sure your hands don't drop and being able to punch again and again without fatiguing too much.
     
  15. jaksun

    jaksun New Member

    I'm going for acceleration and trying to get the form to throw as much body weight as possible.
     
  16. Nolan Froese

    Nolan Froese Valued Member

    I don't understand some of the replies. Strength training develops power because strength is the amount of force you can apply. Power is force displayed quickly. Strength and power go hand-in-hand. Lifting should compliment your knock out punch as long as you are working on your punching technique. Squatting heavier isn't going to make you slower. That's ridiculous. If that were true sprinters, basketball players, football players, etc wouldn't be lifting.

    This is a martial arts website so we should all understand that properly and violently executed striking technique is going to add more power. This is a no-duh. We can still lift though considering power-lifting and Oly lifting are probably the best ways to train our posterior chain.

    Get your dead-lift up to 550lbs and then you can worry about lifting too much
     
  17. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    Ok gotta weigh in here, I like the topic by the way, it's not only a good question it's a great question. I've been doing calisthenics daily for over a year now and I'm surprisingly fast actually through all the punches, jab, hook, cross, uppercut and at far, medium and close punching range. I find that in this past year I've developed a lot of muscular endurance and cardio endurance from my daily routine, and it's not just push ups pull ups and core work, I jog and ride the stationary bike and do six to ten minutes of shadow boxing a day.
    If you lift so hard you can't even raise your hands of course your hand speed is going to suffer, if you smoke yourself doing cardio your hand speedwell suffer, but you can recover with rest. The good news is that your hand speed can improve and will improve if you want it too and try hard enough.
    One trick I kinda like is to fire a punch right behind another one, and just as important as sticking it out there fast is bringing it back just as fast or faster and bringing it back to a point where you can fire the next punch correctly, I like to throw a hook from a low chamber to the outside of my hip, I like an upper cut from low and in front of my hip. Hope any of that helps.
     
  18. Stuart H

    Stuart H On the Mandarin bandwagon

    Not if you want to be world-class in either. You can get very strong and punch very hard compared to the vast majority of people, and that's probably more in line with your goals.

    Don't over-complicate things for yourself. Learn to lift weights with good technique, stressing good structural stability and movement above all else. As a simple example, do you bench press? Make sure you do just as much rowing.

    As a martial artist, your training on the mat will always be the majority of your time. The weightlifting is just to assist your development. Never lose sight of this.
     

Share This Page