Calling all cranes

Discussion in 'Kung Fu' started by martin watts, Jun 10, 2004.

  1. martin watts

    martin watts Martin Watts

    Hi, Just put up some White Crane example mpgs on http://www.fujianbaihe.com. there is very little on the internet thingy. ( this forum stuff is all new to me )
    I am looking for other people who do crane. Specifically if you do southern crane and have a form San Jan or Shr San Tai Bau. I would like to show comparisons to my group here so mpg / avi would be great. I am not looking to learn a new style - have too much on my plate already - just to see what people are up to. Or just say hi to me on martin@allmydates.com and may be I will come over and visit. Pretty much anywhere in the world will do.

    ( also variations / haku tsuru / bangau putih )

    Martin
     
  2. dashao

    dashao New Member

    hi there i also am a crane practitoner under yang (YZM) i have only reached the tip of the iceberg as far as the style goes i am learning a basic 2 person form and a few other cool crane moves and priciples it is really an interesting style sort of in between internal and external. dont have any pics will try and get some though.i believe it is called shaolin white crane not sure how southern that is.
     
  3. martin watts

    martin watts Martin Watts

    Hi, Who is YZM. Would be very interested in the lineage of the system you are doing. Look forwards to Pictures.
     
  4. dashao

    dashao New Member

    sorry about that its Dr. Yan Zwing-Ming he wrote that crane book you were talking about his lineage is in there his master was Cheng, Gin-sao if that helps.
     
  5. martin watts

    martin watts Martin Watts

    Thanks. Look forwards to picture of you in full swing. Where is Baile Na Manach? let me know if you want to go on my 'Cranes around the world' page.
    Martin
     
  6. martin watts

    martin watts Martin Watts

    Hi, ( what is your name anyway? ). My YZM book is in storage in England. I am in Spain. If you had time to summarise YZM's lineage - just where in China and who in china - it originates from I would be most greatful.

    Martin
     
  7. dashao

    dashao New Member

    would you believe i cant find his anything on his lineage will ask when i go to class they might know.
     
  8. mikeyj

    mikeyj New Member

    Hi Martin,
    I train with Nam Yang association UK who are based in Singapore but are Chinese descendents from the Fujian province. The style we train is called tiger crane but has its roots firmly set in southern white crane traditions with some extra hand attacks from the tiger system. I've been training for about 2 and a half years with them and do sam chien(I guess its the same as your san jan), tet bey sam chien, sip ji kuen, and chop saw tai poor(spelling probably very bad!!) We also train iron shiort chi gung and a soft from called suang yang pei ho (sun-frost white crane) this is a 66 step soft from similar to tai chi in speed and softness but in look definitely a white crane form - it is great for stance and accuracy of movement as well as for chi training.
    They have a web site Namyang.co.uk - I train in Brighton in the UK but there are centres in London and Portsmouth as well as in Singapore. I see you're in Mallorca so it may be a way to come but check out the web site. Right I'm going to have a browse through your site now - Mike.
     
  9. martin watts

    martin watts Martin Watts

    Hi MikeyJ ( Mike? ),

    Thanks for getting in contact. I have had a good look at your website. The name Ian Armstrong rings a bell and I went to a centre in Epson a long time ago which did crane. ( I think initially with the kungfu-taichi.com lot? ) would this be the same? - but his was hard not soft.

    Do you have any AVIs of your crane forms I could see for comparison? My San Jan on the site is OK, I will re-record Shr San Tai Bau a bit standand so you can see the comparison. Do you have the names of your forms in chinese characters? Do you know where in Fu Jian your Crane originates from ( it is quite a large area ).

    Hope you enjoy my site.

    Best Wishes,

    Martin Watts
     
  10. mikeyj

    mikeyj New Member

    Hi - I'm training at my centre in Brighton tonight - I'll ask some more detailed questions - I think there was a connection with the kungfu tai chi lot and Nam yang - originally through nam yangs master in Singapore Master Tan Soh Tin - however I think there was some kind of parting here that i don't know much about.
    Most training is hard (or soft/hard?v realxed when striking until final impact sort of whip like strikes) - but the 66 step suang yang form is soft. looking at your vid the Shr San Tai Bau is essentailly the same as the Chap Sai Tai Poor I was talking about with some slight variations which could be down to geographical differences? Have'nt got a cam corder so got no mpegs I'm afraid - I'll get back to you with some more info about the style. Mike.
     
  11. martin watts

    martin watts Martin Watts

    Shr San Tai Bau

    I have re-recorded Shr San Tai Bau and it is on my site linked from the front page. This is a bit more representative of how I think it should be done (balance wise ). It may still be a bit too hard but not much from what I remember.

    I think I visited Ian Armstrong's club about 6 / 7 years ago, and then there was a forms competition in the Rainbow Centre ( this is a bit hazy now ). He was very welcoming to me. I remember also his crane was very powerful and we did an excercise punching candles out or something. Please send my regards if it is the same person.

    If you have any chinese characters for your forms I would be interested to see them as the dialect otherwise makes it difficult for me to see what you are doing.

    Best Wishes,


    Martin Watts
     
  12. martin watts

    martin watts Martin Watts

    Crane footage

    Have put up a new web site with lots of footage of some of the crane practitioners in Yong Chun doing their thing.

    http://www.yongchunbaihechuen.com

    Martin
     
  13. El Tejon

    El Tejon MAP'scrazyuncle

    martin, hello, my name is Kirk and while I am not a White Crane student, my praying mantis kwoon studies qin na from Dr. Yang's system. I have had the opportunity to talk to Dr. Yang's senior students/instructors regarding Crane (show me yours, I'll show you mine kind of stuff that happens at break during seminars).

    This is what I know from talking to them:

    Dr. Yang studied crane from Cheng Gin-Gsao in Xinzhu Xian,Taiwan who was a devoted student of Jin Shao-Feng. Cheng had a profound influence on Dr. Yang as he still speaks of him with reverence. (He still carries the scars and bruises from crane training in RoC). Cheng also influenced Dr. Yang's Qin Na system as some 60% is White Crane (mantis and long fist comprise the rest).

    There are divisions of White Crane as different types emphasize different methodologies (not unlike mantis--seven star, six harmony, plum flower, etc.). It is called Southern as Crane migrated south with politically incorrect monks because of the unrest at the end of the Ming dynasty and as a result began to de-emphasize long range techniques and began to bring more grappling and stance training to bear.

    I have seen White Crane boxing forms and weaponry demonstrated. I admire it very much.
     
  14. martin watts

    martin watts Martin Watts

    Crane

    Dear Kirk,
    Thanks for this information. I have yet to see any pure Northern crane but I would love to! -

    The only mantis I have seen in person was the training group in Tai Pei in the park. The teacher was a Mr Peng. I am not sure if it was pure mantis or mantis as one of a mixed system but I certainly found it a very beuatiful emphasis. I was allowed to do arm conditioning work with the students there as I was practicing on my own at the time and that was very nice of them.

    Regarding Chi Na, this is all a bit of a mystery to me. For example in our form Shr San Tai Bau I would guess over 50% of the moves are grabbing of one kind or another. Even the salute which is called 'the general hangs the stamp' ( jiang jun gua yin - I give you the names in case you have similar ones ) I have been told is a Chi Na technique. However I did not see much practised in Yong Chun. The emphasis is much more on the grip itself and it's effect on your balance / stance ( breaking the root ) than what you do with it subsequently. And yet the system is external to China famouse for this area.

    If you have a Chi Na move which you would consider to be 'classic crane' I would be most interested to see it. i.e. are the techniques themselves Crane, or it it the emphasis in which they are performed i.e. with very solid crane fundamentals and finger conditioning applied to a technique which can be easily translated to other systems.

    You can see I am vague about this so the question is quite open.

    Best Wishes,

    Martin Watts
     
  15. El Tejon

    El Tejon MAP'scrazyuncle

    Not certain if there is anything that would qualify as "pure" Northern Crane. Maybe La Ma as practiced in Tibet? Don't know, I certainly no expert, just reporting what was told to me.

    Classic Crane Qin Na? I'm sure there is, but don't know if I'm the proper authority. Can tell you this to this student a lot of "White Crane" Qin Na looks like Praying Mantis Qin Na which most likely looks like something else. Only so many ways to move the body and all. Of course, I'm probably wildly off base. :D
     
  16. martin watts

    martin watts Martin Watts

    Kirk,

    Sorry - what I meant by pure northern crane, is someone practicing Crane like the Pal Hok Pai from Phillipeans where there entire system is crane - not just crane influenced or something with a bit of crane inside.

    Yes - only so many ways to move the body. I agree. I would have thought that there is some system specific Chi Na or may be there is an emphasis. For example the direction of the force in my crane is forwards and projecting. - I would think then there would be Chi Na lock moving forwards sort of rather more aggressively into the joint locks rather than the normal 'twist the wrist this way or that way' stuff which I see taught as Chi Na. In addition we have a very distinctive claw which would dictate the relationship between the gripper / gripee ( for want of a better term ).

    Much of crane is basics. I am sure some of the techniques are not effective unless the basics are good. I would expect to find some Chi Na techniques which work in the same way - otherwise you have the equivalent of a karate practitioner trying to use Wing Chun blocks without the accompanying body work.

    I could too be wildly off base too.
     
  17. Sandy

    Sandy Valued Member

    Crane resources, books and DVDs

    Hi. Does anyone know of further White Crane resources since this thread started?

    :thinking: This being an old thread, what else is now available in books or DVDs?
     

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