Bullying is the one subject of all that gets my back up more than any other simply because there is no solution. "Tell a teacher!" Yeah, and they'll do what, considering they don't see it happen? Besides, teenagers will come and get "revenge" for you grassing them up (note use of quotation marks because I always believed that revenge was about getting even, not avoiding responsibility). "Hit them back!" This may work for young kids, where bullies are simply nasty kids, but from teenagers upwards the macho instinct becomes involved, and people have their reputation to consider. This means that they will be prepared to do you over and get their mates involved. Another fact to consider is that it is easily turned round to make it look like YOU were bullying THEM, especially if you are actually bigger than them. "Ignore them!" There are two problems with this statement. Firstly, it's completely unfair that some kid who's being bullied has to just ignore all these people doing horrible things to him; it puts the burden of responsibility on the victim. Secondly, it DOESN'T make it go away. "Just laugh it off!" If only it were this easy. For a start, you can't laugh off physical violence. Furthermore, if we're talking verbal abuse then this comes in two forms, neither of which can be protected against with a sense of humour. The first form is where they say nasty, hurtful, personal remarks about you, such as your weight. That kind of thing cuts too deep to just laugh it off. The second form is where what they say may not be particularly hurtful, but they are so persistent with their name calling that you can't escape from it and they just keep on until they get a reaction. Bullies are experts in their craft, and the rest of society is ill-equipped to deal with them. However, it doesn't help that people who haven't been bullied themselves always come out with things like: "Bullying is just a part of growing up, everyone goes through it." Er, no they don't. People who say this really don't understand the extent to which it interferes with your life IMO, we're not talking about the odd bit of aggro every now and then, we're talking persistent bullying. "If you didn't do >insert name of hobby here< people wouldn't pick on you". Of course I know that, the point is that I shouldn't have to change my hobbies just to avoid bullying if it's something I enjoy. "Just put up with it and stop whining". Ok, my mates and I will beat you up and shout hurtful abuse at you every day, then we'll all tell you to stop whining. "You would bully if you were in a position to be able to!" Would I really? Am I not able to simply have morals? It appears to me that people seem to support bullies more than victims. Statements such as those given above do nothing but justify or excuse bullying. As Scarlet Mist says, we then wonder why schools get shot up and condemn the perpetrators as psychotic murderers. I am not going to defend such people and I am NOT advocating shooting people as a viable option. But you have to have some empathy here. Imagine the scenario: you've got some kid sitting there who realises that nothing he can do will ever stop people bullying him, and then he tells you he's just gonna shoot them all. You tell him how it's a bad idea and that he shouldn't do it, so he responds by saying "what else can I do?" I know that if it was me, I wouldn't be able to answer this question.
Some very interesting points Tim, but I'd like to play Devil's Advocate with some of them, especially as I've just been talking about this. "Tell a teacher!"Yeah, and they'll do what, considering they don't see it happen? This is partly true, teachers don't always see what's going on, but then how can they be expected to do anything if no-one tells them? Then the question is what do you want them to do? Stop the bully or punish him or both? Some schools in the UK have a policy where the bully is watched or in extremes isolated, this brings us to; Besides, teenagers will come and get "revenge" for you grassing them up Ah yes. Good old "code". What I said before does come into this, tell someone if you think this is going to happen. Some schools ensure that the victim of bullying is also watched to ensure no further bullying goes on. There is also advice suggesting that acts of bullying can be "orchestrated" some what to ensure that a teacher (or other authority) "happens" along. In very extreme cases it has been know for either the victim or the bully to be removed from the school to another. I realise that the "revenge" can be taken anywhere, certainly if it does then you should be considering criminal charges. This may not ease the pain of the kicking you get, but it does send out a very clear message. "Hit them back!" This may work for young kids, where bullies are simply nasty kids, but from teenagers upwards the macho instinct becomes involved, and people have their reputation to consider. This means that they will be prepared to do you over and get their mates involved. Firstly I would say that it working for young kids is amazingly irresponsible. It is very easy for a child to learn that a problem can be removed by violence, therefore each problem they have in the future is removed by violence. Secondly you are right, ego is a huge factor to consider, both yours and thiers, this is why a mental approach can be better than a physical one. Another fact to consider is that it is easily turned round to make it look like YOU were bullying THEM, especially if you are actually bigger than them. Refer to all previous points. "Ignore them!"...{edit}...{alot}...Bullies are experts in their craft, and the rest of society is ill-equipped to deal with them...{edit}...It appears to me that people seem to support bullies more than victims. Excellent points raised. I wouldn't say that society are ill-equiped, it is more that much of society is either ignorant or put's up with it in silence. This can certainly lead to the idea that bullies are given more support. Society does have the means to deal with all but the most determined of bullies. It is a terrible shame that people, children and adults alike, need to move from an area to prevent this sort of behaviour. I don't think that it's a huge price to pay for the safety of our loved ones. What sticks in the throat is what appears to be a lack of punishment. My advice, regardless of who or how old, will always be TELL SOMEONE. This may not stop anything from happening, but the advantage is that you are not suffering alone, you are being supported. Hopefully they can do something, or know some who can.
I think it's just because I'm a teen that I think like this, and I'm sorry if I do offend anyone, but IMO teachers can teach about this stuff all day long, and they do in our schools, but until you get one like my PE teacher they're totally useless in these situations. Also when I first joined MAP I was unsure of when it's time to fight back, but after a thread and two bloody noses and a couple black eyes I figured it out, and after the bully figures out even with his friends he can't stop your will the do leave you alone. Especially if you're like me and 15 of your closest friends hold higher belts than you in arts like Wing Chun and Kyokushin KarateDo, not that the styles, ranks, or fighting ability of your friends matter, but the fact that you have someone you can rely on does, and believe me did I spend a while down at the police station on the last day of school with my friends and foes, but what I learned from all of it was making a stand is important, but beating a gang of bullies totally unconsciencess isn't always the way to do it.
I'm a teen myself, but you see, most of the problem with bullies are not only the agressors' fault. If a teen is wise enough(being humble, like me), he can use cheap psicology with the agressor, Is easy and is fun(for me) If you decide to fight, do it with crushing weapons(hide-able staves, Jo staves.), or can use the intimidation factor with daggers.
That's the way to go. If they mess wit you, pound their sorry butts into submission, and if you can't do it by yourself get friends to help you.
When I was younger I was bullied and my parents told me to be his friend,.. and wow it worked. But we were young, and he isn't still a friend of mine. So I'd say to try to talk it out and work with it and be non-violent up until... about highschool. Then that won't work, and you will have to start martial arts. But me, I'm lucky no one really dislikes me or really really likes me so I'm in the middle ground and I doubt anyone would want to mess with me. So the best way I've learned is to seem completely unaffected, I commonly insult myself, and laugh about it, people couln't beat some one up who has a easy going personality like that. (even though I don't really) The only reason I can think of now for getting bullied is if I finally (and I have on a smaller level) pull someone off to the side and tell them to knock it the h...ck off for messing with someone else. But be careful with your violence people not everyone is a martial arts kid going against a stupid football player who thinks he's all that. Violence, (even though I wish it was) isnt the only way.
how old were you? trying to make freinds with a teenage bully is impossible, they feel they have a reputation to uphold. and laughing at urself and stuff i dont see how that helps, me and my freinds were always easy going and not hugly popular, well not when i was bullied neway, but they picked on us alot, when i did fight back i became very popular and all the bullys left me and my freinds alone. this is just my own experience tho, perhaps u were just lucky u managed to make freinds with him, i was not so lucky, i got hit ect every school day for 3 years untill i fought back, do you know other ppl who have managed to make freinds with bullys and not become like them?? btw dont take anything i have said offensovly please, i just dont see how it works, i think you were just lucky managing to make freinds with him.
Fair enough mate! To be fair to teachers they can't really be expected to see what happens 24/7, and it's somewhat unfair that part of their job involves acting basically as a security guard. However, though it may not be their fault, it doesn't make it any easier when you go to a teacher and they tell the kid not to do it again if anything, only for the kid to do it again, or for them to just tell you to ignore it. I'd be interested to hear how well this actually works. If you are the kind of person who gets bullied then you will probably get bullied wherever you go. There are stupid people in every school who will pick on you for having geeky hobbies, being clever, liking certain music, etc... It doesn't work out that way if the kid has half a brain. My brother and I were always taught not to hit anyone unless they hit us and it has worked. Well what I mean here is that people always expect the victim, not the bully, to take steps to sort it out, like "don't wear those clothes", "ignore it", etc. as if it's the victim's fault. What is this means to deal with it? And yes, the lack of punishment certainly does stick in the throat. Well yeah, just don't give them the idea that whoever they tell will be able to sort it out.
There is always a big queue of people who haven't been bullied themselves waiting to tell you off for lowering yourself to their level.
people who havnt been bullied shouldnt give out advice, because they havnt experienced it and therefore cant speak on behalf of those who have
"If you are the kind of person who gets bullied then you will probably get bullied wherever you go. There are stupid people in every school who will pick on you for having geeky hobbies, being clever, liking certain music, etc..." that i agree with, btw way how do you add more than one quote
I agree that they aren't going to see everything that goes on, but yes, I do think that it is reasonable for them to act like security gaurds. They are public servants and are given the incredable duty of looking after our children. You are right that some seem to lack empathy and give out pathetic advice as you've mentioned. I'd like to see how well the "Orchestrating" works as well. Perhaps it is more to do with how the child is taught then? The very reason I started this thread. The pessimistic view is that victims will usually remain victims and bullies will usually remain bullies. Certainly the proceedures that are used at my work do usually work, but just like schools it requires an organisation to stick together.
It may be pessimistic but it is based on attempts to resolve the problem over years and years and years. Your workplace bullying procedures may work well at getting an organisation to stick together against the bully, but schools are different. Bullying is not always done by individuals, in schools it is often done by large groups who make themselves popular by being bullies. Teenagers are immature and think it's cool to be a bully (because they don't think it's bullying if they do it), whereas most adults are mature enough not to do it.
That doesn't stop them from thinking that they can. They think it's something everyone goes through and really underestimate the impact it has on your life.
Violence has always worked for me, when I was younger I lived in places where everytime you changed schools there was someone around to fight you the first day, or try to take your food and that sort of thing. Most of the times it takes one fight, I always fought, lost some, won most but at the end of the day the guys werent looking for someone they would have to fight everyday and go home with a black eye to get a plate of food so they moved along to the weak targets. Of course I wasnt the type of kid to start crying after a punch either, there was one occation where I was kicked in the stomach and thrown a few feet at which point I got up and continued the fight, to be honest neither the throw nor the kick hurt much so I showed no sign of pain. The problem lies when you dont fight the first day, in this situation you make a choice: One fight or one year humiliation. After the usual introductory fights I would end up in the other side of the group, now people around me would be bullying other kids but I never had any part in it, I just sat there and ate my food. People will say things like "If people would help kids who are being bullied there would be a lot less bullies around" Is this true? Maybe, however, I dont believe its the way to go, you cant rely on other people to stand up for you, you have to do it yourself. I helped a kid who was being bullied once, and the reason I did it was because he wanted to fight, he had stood up for himself but was helpless because the other person was bigger and a better fighter than him. My view on this has always been that I dont help cowards, I am a weapon, not a shield, if you are fighting with all you have but dont have the means to succeed or have a considerable impact on your opponent/opponents, then I will lend my services to you, but if you just stand there and dont do anything for yourself dont expect me to come and shield you from the aggression that you are too weak minded to put an end to yourself.
Schools should* be no different. Just as prisons should be no different. People still bully in groups, whatever age they are. Often the reasoning behind teenage bullying and adult bullying is no different. *I say should because I wonder if adults seem to think that children bullying each other is just teenage boistrousness and stupidity and really they will grow out of it?
Unfortunately it is IMO. A simple way to demonstrate is using a circle of behaviour. It starts: Thought: I am the man. I'm right. I get what I want, because I am the man. No-one pushes me around, no-one dare mess with me!!! Everyone is just jealous, because I am the man!! leads to... Behaviour: Strutting around, bullying, intimidation, arrogance, gets what they want by force/aggression. leads to... Consequences: Get what they want. No-one tends to mess with them, people agree with them (at least to their face). Generally disliked by anyone else except stupid people of the same mind set. This in turn reinforces the original thoughts and we begin the cycle again.
Then how exactly do you get people to stick together against bullies rather than just jump on their bandwagons?
