Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Emil, Aug 11, 2006.

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  1. DouglasLam

    DouglasLam Valued Member

    Errr.r... many are BOTH. I can be fun too. But there are kids around. :cool:

    Yah, very low key.

    And when all starts to have low key fun, see what happen. ;)
  2. Matsufubu

    Matsufubu Valued Member

    The only person being rude to you is GangrelChilde, which is why I asked if he posted at BS too. There's a couple of Bullies poking fun, but that's it.

    Are you Asian? I'm wondering if there's a difference in the culture and you're not picking up on the humour. If you think a BS member posting on this thread is violating the ToS, then report the posts.

    Low Key Fun FTW!
  3. DouglasLam

    DouglasLam Valued Member

    Oh, you are perhaps right if compared to GangrelChilde! But I was refering to BSD and not MAP. You said there are more in MAP, but so far I read more rude posts in BSD. More is a kind word here. So I disagree, there are a lot more in BSD who are as rude if not worse than GangrelChilde.

    As for MadMonk, all he did was accused wrongly without reading properly and assumptions.

    I am sure most Singaporeans are able to pick up most of the humours since sg was a british colony. :D In BSD, I enjoy reading some of the witty ones too. But I find simply insulting an bashing tasteless.

    Maybe there is a different in culture, but I had no problem joking and having fun with british, aussie, kiwi and americans troops. :)
  4. Matsufubu

    Matsufubu Valued Member

    Okay, my response to that would be that yes, Bullies are often rude, but it's almost always because somebody has earned it. If you go on there and preach that martial arts are about peace and harmony, or that TKD and aikido are awesome martial arts and own all, or post ludicrously bad n00b questions in the main forum instead of Newbietown (see recent posts in the Martial Arts BS and Your Martial Art Sucks forums), then yes, you will get a barrage of mockery and often abuse. Over here, often if you say something somebody doesn't like, then they get abusive. What I'm really saying is that the rudeness on BS is justifiable, but the rudeness here isn't. That's a gross generalisation btw, and I'm aware of that.

    If you look at the stupidity exhibited that earns that bashing, you'll see that they deserve it and it becomes funny. You have to get used to be careful what you say over there. There is a low tolerance of nonsense on BS.

    Well, America, Australia and NZ were all British colonies, so that might explain it... :D
  5. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    I have a BSD account, yes, and under this SN. I also have accounts on MAP and Black Belt Domain with the same SN. What does this have to do with anything. I'm being rude to Mr. Lam because I don't like him. Check out my posting history on MAP... not like I've never been in the sin bin or gotten on someone's case before. :rolleyes:
  6. Matsufubu

    Matsufubu Valued Member

    Relax, I was aking because of this from DouglasLam:

    ...obviously meaning you. I was contending the 'rude BS people' point, as you were the only one being properly rude to him and AFAIK you are MAP and not BS. I wasn't criticising and I don't care if you're rude to each other, I don't know the history.
  7. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    Great. You saw, you joined, you got flamed. Get over it, already.

    YAWN... are we done yet. Really? You wanna do the "MA spiritual journey"? No wonder you got sodomized on BSD. Not exactly the right fit. That's not their thing.

    According to the Chinese Koushu Institute, a form of wrestling which involved butting head (not going there) was used in 2697 BCE. Jiao Li was developed in the Zhou Dynasty, sometime between 1000 and 300 BCE, becomoing public around 200 BCE. Then the history seems to mesh with shuai jiao, which I am aware of as it's part of my curriculum.

    Earliest evidence suggests boxing and stick fighting existed as early as 4000 BCE. Got you beat by about 1400 years. Those crazy Egyptians, what were they thinking, creating a martial art earlier than the Chinese :rolleyes:

    Kata is not as effective a drill. We've got a few threads open on this topic, go look them up. I think you're smart enough to use the "search" function.

    Ok, I can do this, let's rock and roll:

    Interesting. As for groin shots... I'd be willing to go-head-to-head on this issue with Bas. Of course, he does say MT and JJ are the best for self-defense on the other hand, so...

    And no, I still would argue it's the most realistic out there.

    No, really, I'm not. Unless Blaine Wilson has started doing Martial Arts and put out a naked WuShu video! WOOF!

    Fine. Whatever. I've joined the ranks of the uncouth and crass and uncivilized. Fine. There, discussion over. :rolleyes:

    Well, I *was* hoping you'd just go away, but that's obviously not going to happen.

    You made the assertion, Doug, you get to post the link. Otherwise, I think you're full of it.

    At least on BSD, the imbecile who starts a discussion on the existance of dragons in the PHILOSOPHY section would get the appropriate beatdown instead of MODs telling us to be "civil" to said imbecile.

    At least on BSD, the little ninjer wanna-be coming into the Weapons forum crying about how they don't have an instructor and want to find the hottest DVD so they can master the katana or the rope dart in three easy lessons would get the appropriate beatdown instead of MODs telling the rest of us to be civil to said imbecile.

    At least on BSD, we wouldn't have 50,000,000,000 threads on why "Bruce Lee could kick the ass of <insert pro-fighter here>".

    At least on BSD we wouldn't have the sad and pathetic human being too stupid to use a phone book coming on asking "Where is there a martial arts school around me and is it any good?". Yeah, 2 seconds on Google and I found 5 pages of schools for the last guy. But we have to treat them with love and respect because they joined. Screw that. If you're on the internet and can't do a "google" search, then why should we be civil to them. :confused:

    Do you really want me to continue with some of the utter stupidity which exists here on MAP which wouldn't exist over there? MAP has great discussions and is overall a site which I prefer, but I am sick of some of the idiocy which is allowed because we can't administer the proper beatdown to some imbecile who so righteously deserves it.
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2006
  8. blessed_samurai

    blessed_samurai Valued Member

    GC, I must admit...I've always been a fan of your argumentation and debate skills. Me thinks it must be the lawyer in ya'.
  9. Mixitup

    Mixitup Banned Banned

    That just cost DouglasLam $5000 :D
  10. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    LOL, thanks :D

    See, people who know me like me :love:
  11. DouglasLam

    DouglasLam Valued Member

    I do agree some are asking for it, but some delibrate do it to "fuel" their personal agendas. What is the difference? You do not have to say something there and they will get abusive. Abuses have been initiated. Yes, some are justified, but many are not. Generalisation will mean not justifiable.
    I agree to these. But it is not really about low tolerance, it is about failure to respect others even when there is nothing stupid. Why should people be bashed for their uniforms just because it does not look "usual"? Is it "usual" for man to wear tights? How would they feel if people bash them about wearing tights? An example will be the bashing of korean arts in regard to their uniforms. Did they even bother learn about the culture of Koreans? Their customary clothings? No, they just enjoy insulting how "ridiculous" their uniforms are.

    Yes, they have low tolerance for nonsense, which is justifiable. But to exhibit low tolerance of DIFFERENCES, that is not justifiable. How would they feel if people starts mocking them for their "social" (NOT religious) circumcised manhood which is medically unneccessary?
    Probably, although some of the "dialected" slangs make them too difficult to my ears sometimes.
  12. DouglasLam

    DouglasLam Valued Member

    Getting over it does not mean I cannot share my opinon here, does it?

    Who is not getting over my opinon of BSD....the negative aspects?

    What MA spiritual journey? It was regarding TCM! LOL
    I did? Thank you for sharing their sodomising interest. Yes, definately not. I am a virgin there unlike them. I am not keen in this interest either.

    OIC, 2697 BCE is NOT old enough eh? I would be most pleased if you can share your evidence too as I am not aware of any 4000BC yr old sketches.

    From what I am aware they do have evidence showing various exercise in the 5th-6th dynasties (2500BC). I would like to remind you that you mentioned," the oldest MAs on record are Egyptian stick fighting and Greco-Roman wrestling and boxing and pankration, not chinese wrestling." and NOT just Egyptian stick fighting.

    I am aware Egyptian stick fighting (or fencing) have evidence (1450BC) from the tomb of King Amenhotep II.

    Of course, we can really admire the Egyptian's ancient culture.

    But you clearly avoided mentioning pankraton which was evidential 1250 BC. You miss out this?

    I brought in Jiao Li because of what you said, and you listed ALL these as being OLDEST. And it is clearly you made a wrong statement. It might be right if you had ONLY mentioned Egyptian boxing/exercises and maybe even stick fighting (fencing). This is why I told you to check on chinese wrestling which is shared by you to be at 2697BCE, and yet it is not the AMONG your OLDEST? Therefore, in order for you to rebuke correctly, you have to show evidence not just on Egyptian but the rest you mentioned as mine was a reply to what you mentioned and NOT just Egyptian.

    I am sure it is more convenient for you to simply cast a side the others, you mentioned. Oops! You just proved that chinese wrestling is among the oldest YOU mentioned! :cool:

  13. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    Then why couldn't you leave this discussion alone?

    Well, to be perfectly honest, I'm not really satisfied with the evidence about the age of Chinese Martial Arts. There are far too many myths out there about them, and the Chinese Government isn't exactly helping the cause. My own personal opinion is that none of the CMAs have a terribly verifiable lineage past the late 1800's. And if you wantt o find some sketches, check wikipedia or surf the web, or check out Poliakoff's "Combat Sports in the Ancient World". Lots of sketches from freizes and tombs.

    No, I believe Pankration is just as old, and boxing and wrestling are even older. Boxing can be traced back to 4000 BCE in North Africa. But hey, maybe I can be wrong about Pankration, but since most of the evidence re: CMAs is just bad and jumbled, not sure I am. Plain and simple, the Africans were the first MAers, not the Chinese.

    *sigh* Do I need to spell it out? OK, I will. Katas do not involve resisting opponents. Kata do not involve spontaneous movements and evasions as good shadowboxing and other drills do. Kata is a pre-arranged patern of movements which, unless you make your own, have no variables in them. All the other drills I mentioned earlier do. Therefore they are better training tools.

    OK, you need to just accept the fact that unless folks start taping muggings and random assaults, MMA is the closest we have. Deal with it. Posting coments by Bas Rutten without posting everything else is not going to win you points. But hey, you know, the deadly eye gouge must be the gauge for REALITY, right?

    I'd be concerned if I could learn anything from gymnastics.

    Sorry, I'm getting the last word.

    And yet you still haven't posted any links to the big bad BSD threads. Go figure. So, again, I must say stfd and stfu.
  14. slideyfoot

    slideyfoot Co-Founder of Artemis BJJ

    I've mentioned this before, but Pankration is roughly 2700 years old, as it can be dated to at least 536 BC (when the oldest yet dated statue honouring an Olympic pankratiast was erected) or possibly 648 BC (if you take Sextus Julius Africanus' list of Olympic sports to be accurate, but as that was written after 217 AD, I'm suspicious), either of which would indicate it was probably in existence before those dates.

    Wrestling has it beat by some considerable distance, with murals from Beni Hasan, Egypt (dating to at least 1950BC) demonstrating recognisable wrestling technique. Even older are the limestone plaques and bronze jars depicting wrestlers (and boxers, incidentally) from Nintu Temple VI in what used to be Sumeria (modern-day Iraq), dating from around 3000 BC.

    Terracotta Plaque of Wrestlers and Boxers
    Khafaji, Nintu Temple
    Early Dynastic Period, 3000-2340 B.C.
    Iraq Museum, Baghdad

    Copper Statuette of Wrestlers
    Khafaji, Nintu Temple
    Early Dynastic Period, ca. 2600 B.C.
    Iraq Museum, Baghdad

    As it happens, that info first cropped up on a Bullshido thread. :D
  15. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    Thanks for the info about the Middle East. My books only talk about Egypt and Greece... apparently Mr. Poliakoff didn't consider Sumeria and the Middle East to be part of the Ancient World ;)
  16. DouglasLam

    DouglasLam Valued Member

    Wow! You are indeed amusing! I shared my opinon and you tell me to leave this discussion alone! You have EXTRA rights here?

    Can you make up your mind? You are not satisfied and you USED it beforehand until I reminded you the dates? Until I reminded you it was not about Egyptian vs Chinese? Taking the easy way out eh?

    And may I know which MA at present has a verifiable lineage? LOL
    You refer to sketches as lineage? The same mythic Jiao Di based on? Is this not a double standard from your part? Anyway, Jiao Li was WRITTEN in the Classic of Rites.

    Oh! You BELIEVE? I see.

    You might be wrong? I see.

    Suddenly, from greek an egyptian, you turned to Africa? When I am the one who brought up Africa? Who said the Chinese were the First MAers? It is very obvious where this started, you attacked by saying CMA is not among the oldest MAs which you listed out clearly. So what is plain and simple? You twisting here and there when I exposed your inaccuracy? If you had said Africa, you will probably not be challanged, you know? LOL

    Yah, and shadow boxing has resisting opponents. You are funny!

    You are limiting Kata to just these realms you mentioned. It contributes in various ways you failed to know even after your claimed of your CMA background. MA training is not limited to facing opponents. Even MMAers do not train against opponents (shadow or not) all the time. There is pads and bags, static exercise etc etc.

    Kata helps one understand his body better, the importance of transferring of weight, the shifting of the CG, agility, flexibility. Yes, you can substitue it by MANY other exercises. But that does not make Kata useless.

    So, do not limit to just what you SEE regarding Kata. A monkey probably learn how to imitate but they do not understand the action. I am sure you are smarter.

    I've already mentioned MMA competitions are the closest SPORT. Accept it is STILL a sport. You cannot deny the fact even Vale Tudo has its minimal rules.

    You better deal with it. I know the difference even though I like MMA.
    Oh, I have kindly posted just one of the many MMA related practitioners. What have you provided? NONE. I am not here to win. I am just sharing because I know the difference and I know it is hazardous for fans who worship MMA to refer it as real. Even the professional MMA fighters know the difference and they will deal differently in a REAL situation. And some learnt it the bitter way but lived to tell.

    Reality is more than eye gouge. But I am sure there is a reason why it is banned in MMA. Deal with it.
    Oh dear, you mean there is nothing to learn from gymnastics? This is sad. How narrow-minded!

    You are forgiven. Ever wonder what happen after someone has his LAST WORD?

    I have supported my points more than you and you are trying to accuse me of not providing links to big bad BSD threads? C'mon! All one has to do is just go to the forum and randomly pick any thread. what have you supported yours with? Twisting and turning. And of course, your usual "I am bigger than you". You do not have the basic courtesy, you start telling me I should not post, you start accusing me not providing support. Have you even look at YOURSELF?
  17. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member


    If you're going to say "A n00b came on to Bullshido and got flamed for asking question X" or whatever your original premise was, you need to provide a link to said thread. Not your thinly-veiled **** and vinegar attitude. Not your concluisions based on the sodomization you received. Not based on the fact you probably made as big a pain in the ass over there as you are doing over here.

    All your witticisms, claims, and misunderstandings about, well, everything, aside, this is a simple and basic request which is very easy for you to comply with. You haven't... instead of just answering the question, you've dragged us so far off-topic it's not even funny. ANSWER THE QUESTION, DOUGIE.

    Produce the evidence or stfd and stfu. MAP will be a better place without you BSD rejects.
  18. Garibaldi

    Garibaldi Valued Member

    Can't beleive I just read all of this thread (I must be bored!!!)

    I don't think he is at all. He's made some interesting and valid points that you seem to wash over in your attempts to belittle him

    Happens all the time on BSD, so what purpose will a link serve?

    I may not agree with all his comments and views that he's expressed on MA, TMA, Kata etc but he's entitled to them, as are you! That's what forums are about aren't they?

    Hey, its a public forum. If you don't like it, then in your words stfu
  19. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    Back at ya, Garibaldi.

    This was a relatively reasonable dialogue, which happened to include several prominent members of BSD. This this ****ant comes along crying like a little girl.

    This was *supposed* to be constructive. Take the baggage somewhere else.

    If you can't, then do all of MAP a favor and just **** off.
  20. Matsufubu

    Matsufubu Valued Member

    I agree...but you are generalising too. Just to reiterate a previous point, there are SOME posters who do that, but they are not considered very high up the pecking order, and they are also a shrinking minority. It's obvious that an inexperienced BJJ nutriding teenager who dismisses TKD because they think a dobak looks funny is not going to get very far on Bullshido.

    YES, it happens. Just not very often and rarely by anyone who is taken seriously.

    Well, if they were wearing tights then they'd deserve to be mocked! Yes, they'd probably be accused of being Robin Hood LARPers or something.

    Regardless of art or what their uniform looks like, if a poster knows what they are talking about - and conveys this intelligently - they will not be mocked. Certainly not for long.

    Link please. I'd like to see that for myself. If you're talking about one of the Kuk Sool Won threads, I'm not surprised. Have you seen those fans?!?! :cry:

    Well, they'd probably ask what that has to do with anything. What a bizzare analogy...

    It's a MA forum, and if anybody really wanted to share that about themselves then I'm sure it would provoke discussion rather than random mocking. I remember a notorious member, Matthius_100, who kept telling people about his abusive stepfather. He basically got told to STFU for being a troll (which he was, BTW), and also for bringing in unneccessary personal issues onto a MA website.

    There are so many differences between members of Bullshido that there's not a general "let's bash people not like us" policy. If you actually look at most members' style fields, they read "kung-fu", "TKD", "Wing Chun", etc. Bullies laugh at the extreme, like frilly pink fans in Kuk Sool Won, or infant black belts. There are knobheads there too, but hey, it's the Internet.

    If you just read threads entitled "Wing Chun sucks Part 2329845" in the 'Your Martial Art Sucks' forum, then yes, you will get the view that Bullshido hates TMA. But if you delve into the more specific forums you will find a huge wealth of knowledge and information. Bullshido is a resource more than anything, and you should view it as such. That's why I joined MAP - there ARE people who know what they're talking about, not just 16 year old shotokan blackbelts asking whether black people are better at fighting than white people.
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