Brother of William K.S.Chow (Frank)

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by BGile, Feb 14, 2007.

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  1. SifuJason

    SifuJason Valued Member


    You are ill-informed. Bipolar disorder has a genetic component that has yet to be fully identified, and in all likelihood involves multiple genes. Like almost all diseases, it has a genetic component and an environmental component, so it isn't simply "in the genes."

    My source: PubMed, Google, and the fact that I understand what I am reading since I am currently in medical and graduate school.
  2. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    Gary, how long did you train at Leoning's school? When exactly were you there? Was the instruction directly under Leoning, or one of his asistants? The white belt you received from him, did he actually give you a certificate for it, or did it merely come with the gi?

    Sorry for so many questions on this, but I think it would help to put things in perspective.
  3. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    I can understand your thoughts, I guess the only response I can give you is we have not waited until I have received the information from this V.K.. I am posting from what others mention also.

    Come on Jamey GM Sam could not take the BS over at Martial Talk so he closed his account. I don't blame him. This is not something you need to take to heart.
    It is opinions and many of them. One of the reason's I post is to find out and we are not done at this time. If you don't like what was posted go to the location I got it from and tell them.

    Like I mentioned, to many stories so little time. For everyone that is saying one thing you can find another out there.

    As far as my reason, I am inquisitive and yes it gets opinionated. Some of the opinions are valid others are not. The Senate and House disagree all the time problem is most of it is politics.

    I figured John would do the questions or not, he will give as good as he gets, that is the way of these things. Sorry for your irritability.

    Actually I don't believe Vernon Kam cares one way or the other. He is the one who gave me his card. So Jamey how long is long in your opinion?

    To all, that is good I am glad you are showing some information rather than just a statement. I am not taking sides as of yet.

  4. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Dan, Ditto for you...

    But I did notice the two books that GM Sam and his daughter wrote are at amazon...I have thought about buying them at times this might be a good time to do so.
    Problem with books and agendas they change and then what is printed is gospel.

    Ed Parker and his statement about Frank being a school mate. Some say Chow was a Mormon others say he was not. So who do you believe, does it really matter?

    As far as my White belt, John said a couple of times he has the information, let him have his say, he has so much information.
    Does it really matter Dan, just by you mentioning that over and over, show total stupidity as far as others are concerned. You are only showing your lack of awareness also. IMHO

    A or B, one or the other, you tell me. Did I even get a white belt, do I still have it, you care :rolleyes: . Thank you for asking.

  5. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    I was referring to a photograph, not text. Hard to argue with the fact that the photo shows a banner that says "Kara-Ho" on it from the 50's.

    ??? What does this have to do with anything?

    By "Others" I take it you mean your family? I asked a simple question about your training and rank. Pretty easy to answer. Most of us are pretty open about that type of thing.

    I have no idea what your training with Leoning is beyond you saying that you had a white belt from him back in the 60's. Hence, the reason for the detailed questions.
  6. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Dan, How many times do you want me to answer this question??? Every other thread we are on?

    LOL..You are very funny, simple question. Yes it has been answered. If I got a certificate for the rank I might have been going for another rank..Sorry all I can say is I was a student of John Leonings in the middle 60's,and at the time I was a white belt.
    Did I get a certificate and a uniform and a belt. I am not sure if the uniform came with the sign up along with the belt, at this date and time.

    I know many sign up and get it in a package deal, this day and age. It was about 40 years ago. I did not take notes about it.

    John has assured me numerous times he has the information.

    Hope this helps.

    Last edited: Feb 20, 2007
  7. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    So were you actually taught by Leoning, or one of his assistants? How long did you train?
  8. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Both at different times...Taught is a relative term and it is more like shown and received than taught, for much of the stuff was already there.

    I did receive the clock training by Johnny, but that was something I knew from the Marine Corps. It was not all the same, but a punch is a strike and a block etc...I remember the term Shotokan came from them and the term Gung Fu also. No not Kung Fu. One is northern and the other is southern a river runs through China and that is the line.
    The term Hawaii street fighting was what was claimed also. I don't believe he was teaching Kaji at the time.

    Basics is the best I can say as far as what I learned. I received a few kata but I could not say what it was. Just Kata... He changed many katas and renamed them and I have not the foggiest.

    I even received training in some of the FMA arts. But again the Marine Corps trained that also. I trained that when I was a teen before going into the Corps. Had my own bamboo stand and made my own weapons.

    And for how long??? (is it one day or one hundred???) That is a tough one to state with total truth as I am not a note taker and I really have no independent recollection. But I was student of John Leonings. Sorry you don't want me to be one but I am...

    John has the Doc's right???

    I am similar to the wild card that comes up once in awhile. Like Kam he is one who has stirred the issue now. Got to make him a white belt sorry but I am not a Dan rated. Like I have mentioned, some think so, but not me. No cert..

    Aint it a bitch to have to say that, but it is the truth, at this date and time. My wife seems to think longer than I, but at the time I was also going to a gym in studio city and it is confusing now.

    So if John will show you his (docs) that he has mentioned in the past it will clear it up. For I have no documents.

    I was not even given a certification for attending the Chow seminars... Lost they say, so now I probably never went there. LOL

    Since we are making idle conversation, when do you think you will be getting some more rank from John? ;)

  9. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    Whenever he tells me I'm ready to test for it. I have a brown belt in Kajukenbo. I tested in front of John, seven of his black belts and Professor Eugene Sedeno for it. When I'm ready for black, he'll tell me.
  10. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Congratulations Dan,

    That is good. Professor Sedeno :cool:

    Last edited: Feb 20, 2007
  11. Pacificshore

    Pacificshore Hit n RUN!

    This is about the only thing that I vaguely understand in your post :confused: How did Kam 'stir' this issue?? The only one stirring anything is you :bang:
  12. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Regarding the mentioning about Kara Ho as it is now.

    I have a feeling we are going to go around in circles because the Kara Ho that is taught now is not what Chow taught. even if he did change the name I don't think he changed the way he trained or taught.

    I have received some information that might clear up the confusion and that is GM S. K. did a lot of changes and still kept the name. Similar to EP...AK.

    Now it is seperated into different time frames and teaching of certain other aspects to be able to confirm one from another. History we have different periods of time when speaking of Middle ages or the Golden age or Blah Blah...

    So if staying with the name but changing katas and kicks etc. we have a new, you have an end to the other time frame. It is getting muddier but it is also getting clearer.

    So if Vernon Kam took the old of what he learned and came to the states and made his school the "Phonenix Kara Ho". That is clear to what he has done.

    So then he becomes the leader, 8th can be the Hanshi and that makes it clearer also, considering Hanshi means something quite different than GM...

    Now I hope that the information I get will confirm more of what we are discussing or it will become much clearer as to how it has evolved that Mr. Vernon Kam calls himself an 8th...

    In what time frame did all the changing go on at Kara Ho? I know the books were not written until much later. Also could explain why (if it is he) VK came to see what you might be doing different than the original.

  13. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Quite simple he appeared and was the reason for my question. Again he never claims to be part of Kara Ho as is now considered by all. I asked if you heard of him and then it went from there.

    I believe if I had not gone to the memorial none of this would be of interest to me. But I saw and heard many variations to what I have read in other locations and I will add a few of those later just for fun. Hope his mail gets to me soon so this will end. I can't take the suspense, and for all the professing if all he is is a white belt.

    Similar to me I say white belt 40 some years ago with all the other training I have and it is in quesion LOL...Truly totally out of context as to how this whole thing came about.

    Interesting read go back and forth about 10 pages or so.
    I am GAB...

  14. dianhsuhe

    dianhsuhe Co-Founder: Glow-Do



    You just choose to believe whatever fits your agenda, and I am sorry to say that I feel you are unstable. There is a reason that you cause trouble and get banned from so many forums and it is not because the truth hurts all of us, it is because you are WAY out in left field virtually all the time.

    Many times I cannot even interpret your post so that I can try to answer your questions. I also see now that "GAB" was your old screen name and this is more clear than ever before- as you tried causing trouble under that name also.

    I am done with this thread...

    Mods- How do I "Ignore a member"?
  15. Pacificshore

    Pacificshore Hit n RUN!

    User CP and find Ignore feature
  16. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Have you read this lost interview?

    More confusion you see what I mean.

    WILLIAM CHOW: The Lost Interview
    by Jim Perkins

    William Chow, cica 1984

    In 1986 I spent five months in Honolulu. One reason I moved there was I hoped it would give me an opportunity to meet professor William “Thunderbolt” Chow. I’d trained in the Alo system of Hawaiian kenpo (the late Ron Alo was a second-degree black belt under Chow), and having heard many stories about the man behind “Chinese kempo of kara-ho karate,” I was excited about the prospect of meeting him.

    Before I knew it, there I was at the church fellowship hall where he taught, handing him a letter of introduction from Alo. The professor was short yet thick and strong despite having had a serious gallbladder operation a few years earlier. His fingers were as big around as my wrist. When he finished, he tossed the letter onto a table and growled, “Yes, I know Alo—and I no like him!”

    With that, he pounded the table a few times, and it nearly collapsed from the beating. I tried to calm him down, but he walked away and began teaching. Only two students were in the class: Walter, a yellow belt, and Jacob, a black belt who wore a kung fu uniform. A few visitors in street clothes tried to persuade me to leave with some rough language and chair kicking, but I refused and stayed to watch the class for the next three hours.

    At the end of the night, everyone left without even glancing my way. I went home disappointed and called my teacher. He thought it was amusing that they had threatened me. I asked: “Why are you laughing? He hates you, too.”

    Alo laughed even harder and told me to go to the next class. Against my better judgment, I returned two days later and was greeted in a different manner. They were all shocked to see me, especially Chow. It hadn’t been an act; he truly didn’t want outsiders from the mainland exploiting the art he taught. However, because I did come back, they believed I wasn’t as much of a “howlie” (Hawaiian slang for white person, meaning “toilet paper”) as they had thought.

    At first, it was difficult to speak with Chow because he seemed so mean and ornery. However, my thirst for martial arts knowledge and history drove me to pester him with hundreds of questions, many of which he would ignore, smile or just shrug off.

    Chow finally saw the sincerity with which I had asked about his life and his art. One evening, he showed up at class with two grocery bags full of photographs—his photo albums, I guess. He started pulling out old pictures and telling me about them. He had snapshots of everyone from James Mitose and Adriano Emperado to Ed Parker and Nick Cerio.

    That night, the conversation was more like an interview. I wrote down all I could remember as soon as I got home. The following is the transcript of that lost interview from 1986. Keep in mind that Chow was a very emotional person who held grudges—some deserved and others probably not. He was a true character with a one-of-a-kind personality. The things he said reflected how he felt at that moment, but they may not always have been an accurate representation of his true feelings.

    Black Belt: Professor ... how did you get the title of “professor”? What exactly does it mean?
    William Chow: (a little disgusted) It means I am the professor. What do you think it means? I am professor Chow!

    BB: Well, I mean I don’t understand how to get that title. How would I get to be a professor?
    Chow: (very disgusted) Oh, you wanna be a professor, eh?

    BB: No, I was just wondering.
    Chow: You want to be a professor? Good. All you have to do is start calling yourself professor Perkins, OK? You a professor now. Tomorrow, professor Emperado is going to visit you, though. You know ... visit. Then tomorrow, if you still around, I will visit you, and that will be a bad thing!

    BB: No, I don’t want that. On your flier it reads, “Professor William Chow, 15th-degree black belt, Chinese Kara-Ho Kempo Kung Fu.” So you’re a 15th degree?
    Chow: Yes.

    BB: Well, I know you’re the head of the system and all, but I didn’t know there were 15 degrees.
    Chow: What’s the most you heard of?

    BB: I’ve heard that 10th degree is the highest.
    Chow: Right. So if everyone else is 10th degree, the professor is 15th.

    BB: Oh, I see. OK. Do you have any pictures of Mitose in there?
    Chow: (digs for a minute and pulls out a bundle of black-and-white photos, then hands me one showing a big Japanese man in a white gi and a black belt) See this man? Big guy, huh?

    BB: Yeah. Is that Mitose?
    Chow: No, no. Mitose little. That his bodyguard. Big man. Judo champion of all Japan.

    BB: Hmm. He looks mean.
    Chow: (proudly) Yes. I knock him out in 20 seconds!

    BB: Oh. Uh ... cool.
    Chow: See this one? (hands me another picture of a large Japanese man) Another bodyguard. I knock him out in 30 seconds. He think he tough, but he not tough.

    BB: Hmm.
    Chow: Here is Mitose. (hands me a picture of Mitose and the previous bodyguard, then half a dozen more of Mitose with Chow, Emperado and others)

    BB: Wow. These are incredible! So you got your black belt from Mitose?
    Chow: (upset) No! My father my teacher, not Mitose! Mitose a con man. He use me to make himself famous. He show me, I show him, that’s it!

    BB: Really?
    Chow: Yes. Mitose talk good, that’s all. He set up demonstrations all over Hawaii. He talk, and I show!

    BB: Really? What kind of demonstrations?
    Chow: Oh, he break baseball bat over my shin.

    BB: Oh, man! How did you do that?
    Chow: That’s nothing! It’s a trick.

    BB: It was fake?
    Chow: No, it’s real, but it’s not kara-ho. It’s just a trick.

    BB: Did you ever break a bat over Mitose’s shin?
    Chow: Ha! No. It would kill him. Mitose think he’s very good, but that’s why he have bodyguards. He afraid to get beat up. He have a lot of people who wanted to beat him up. That’s why he went to prison. A con man.

    BB: Wow.
    Chow: (pulls out another old photograph of himself and Ed Parker) You know who this guy is?

    BB: Yeah, Ed Parker.
    Chow: (upset that I recognized him) Yes, that right. Parker big shot on the mainland, right?

    BB: Oh, yeah. Everyone knows him. They call him the Father of American Karate.
    Chow: Well, I tell you something, and you remember this: Elvis Presley is the King of Rock ’n’ Roll; and Bruce Lee, he the King of Kung Fu, yeah?

    BB: I guess.
    Chow: (loud and clear) Ed Parker think he the King of Kenpo, but he wrong! There is no King of Kenpo. There is only the professor!

    BB: Yes, of course. But I don’t think he thinks he’s the king.
    Chow: Yes, he does.

    BB: But he’s one of your black belts.
    Chow: No, he’s not! He tell people that to make himself look big. Everyone says they black belt under the professor just to make money.

    BB: So he didn’t train under you?
    Chow: He trained under me, but he only make it to purple belt. He work more with professor Emperado than me. Go talk to him.

    BB: When you retire, is there someone you want to take over your system?
    Chow: Yes. There is only one man who know all of kara-ho system: Jacob. (points to his 29-year-old black belt)

    BB: What rank is he now?
    Chow: He’s the only one who know everything and is best teacher ever, but he doesn’t want any rank from me. He refuses. He been my student since 5 years old. I told him he has to take over, but he says no. He only learn because he loves me, doesn’t want any rank.

    BB: Then how about me, Professor?
    Chow: (trying not to smile) No.

    BB: When I go back to the mainland in a few months, who can I go to to learn true kara-ho?
    Chow: You go see Nick Cerio. He my black belt and teach you kara-ho. I’ll call him for you.

    BB: OK. I guess Alo doesn’t teach true kara-ho. He’s kind of changed to his own style. Is that why you don’t like him?
    Chow: What? I like Alo! He needs to come see me more. You tell him.


    About the author: Jim Perkins is a Nixa, Missouri-based free-lance writer and a sixth-degree black belt in keokin kenpo.

    Me again:

    I am just posting some information...Regarding the Nick Cerio debate and other information. I see why William Chun Jr. is involved with the Nick Cerio group now.
    Muddier but clearer.

  17. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    1. Well, what rank has he received and from who?

    2. My next question would be who has he trained under?

    3. Who are some of his students?

    4. The final question is, what is he selling? Surely he would want to be listed in the phone book at least although if not where he lives now, where he used to live if he recently moved.

    BGile, if you do not have any of the above answers, do you expect that we do? You are the only one who claims he is sending you mail. You should be giving us the facts, not the other way around. All we can do is verify the facts you give us. Stop being so vague or stop talking about it.

    Just my thoughts on this.
  18. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Come on Jamey,
    We went over this many times and you mentioned you knew who I was, now you are pulling this LOL...

    I am not stiring, yes if it was gone over before by all means why go over it again. Similar to Dan asking me about my white belt with Leoning. How many times I have answered that is anyones imagination.

    You are not impressing me by calling me names you are impressing someone but not me for we have had to many e-mail conversation's in the past.

    You are terribly insecure about this why?

    It will be over soon, I have a feeling. :rolleyes:

  19. Pacificshore

    Pacificshore Hit n RUN!


    If your idea of starting threads up just to see the discussions go down hill due to your vagueness in posting, why even bother since you know how may of your threads end up....LOCKED :bang:

    You never seem to offer up any sort of solution, facts, or otherwise. I suggest that you take some time to reflect and move on because I have yet to see anything new come out of your threads/posts.
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