Brother of William K.S.Chow (Frank)

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by BGile, Feb 14, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    I've never seen or heard any referances to Frank actually being a black belt.
    If I remember Mr. Parker's story right; it was that Frank showed him some stuff, but ran out of material and sent him to William.
    Very, very few people actually got black belts from William Chow (not counting people who were already black belts and got promoted higher by Chow).
    There would be Adriano Emperado, Fred Lara, Masaichi Oshiro, Paul Yamaguichi, Abe Kamahoahoa, Bill Chun Sr., Ron Alo, John Chow-Hoon, Charles Kuihana, Sheryl Kuoha, etc.
    I mean in Hawaii, if you had a black belt from Prof. Chow, it was like gold, and everyone knew about it. And if you claimed to have one, and really didn't, he'd be knocking on your door, and the claim would no longer be made.
  2. dianhsuhe

    dianhsuhe Co-Founder: Glow-Do


    Gary- What did Vernon Kam have to say about being an 8th dan in Kara-Ho?

    Any details you would like to share?
  3. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Hi, he mentioned that he would send me some stuff via the snail mail and I should get it next week.
    It was a busy time for him. He aparantly has a school in the area of AZ. that I mentioned, Gilbert.

    So I am going to wait. He was happy to hear from me and he was sorry he had not followed up on our conversation but had lost my number. LOL

  4. KGS BBS

    KGS BBS Valued Member

    Gary, I'm lost on this one. I reread the posts and John didn't make a mistake on the year, he originally posted: Frank (Kwai Hoy) June 2, 1916-April 18, 1976
    ???? - Joe
  5. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Hi Joe,
    The reason you are lost is when John changed his post's I then changed mine to show where he went, if I did not change mine you would see the original post of John was in 1918 and not showing the passing year either. So it was an evolution of edits that you are missing. LOL

    By the way I mentioned to Vernon I would do some more research on Frank to see what I could come up with...(the reason he is sending me some information to help me) But as John has mentioned many are gone and now we are into niece's and nephew's, who really may not know much.

    I have done quite a bit of Geneology and you will be surprised just how families who don't play together don't know much about either when it comes to the nuts and bolts of it all. One of the tragedies of cut and run, or cut and burn. I've seen photos where they penciled or cut the picture out. LOL

    This idea of keeping good records is a tough one to find (unless you come up with the old family bible).

    Memories are tricky, one sometime's want to remember it the way one wished rather than the way it was. Many would say he is "off to the war" instead of "he is in prison", or skid row. :eek:

    I would take the word of a playmate over a parent or an uncle some times for they know more than the other. Then there is the circle we all talk about and make fun of when in fact it is there big time.

    So, anyone know more about Frank (Kway Hoi) Chow?

  6. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    This must be Lester Chow you're talking about. He not only never studied the martial arts, but he never even met Prof. Chow according to him. Most of his info seems to be second or third hand.
  7. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Yes true, he is the one, Lester. I have mentioned the name in another thread and to others. It is not surprising that he is not in the know. Most are not especially with the kind of reputation Willliam had, not many would have wanted to have been in that surrounding.

    Pretty apparant when you look at Professors life and times. (lack of assistance in the later years) when you are the first male of a huge family.
    Very uncommon for families of Chinese heritage.

    One thing that is interesting and we discuss it at times. The attachment of the people to the law enforcement side of it, to give it validity. Otherwise you get the picture that it is thugs and gang related, from whence it came.

    I'm interested to see what will arrive from Vernon, he claims Frank more then anyone for his learning since he started with Frank at age 8.

  8. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    Prof Chow has tons of relatives who have never met him, or know little of him. Lester Chow never met him. His relation to him is his grandfather, who was Hoon Chow's (Prof.'s Chow's father) older brother.
    Brian Vea's grandmother was Prof. Chow's sister, he knows quite a bit about the Prof (Uncle Willie), but not as much as some others.
    And of course there's his son Stephen. His only child. Could have inherited the whole thing if he would have chosen a differant direction for his life.
    Having the only video's of Prof. Chow on the world wide web, I get contacted by relatives all the time. Even relatives of Mitose, McCandless, and Eli. There's a whole lot of history back in Hawaii that's not on Wikipedia.
  9. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    I know about history too John. Like Bruce Corrigan mentioned to me, if you were there with Johnny and them why do you care? And like I have mentioned it is because of mistruths and untruths or, just because.

    The situation as to why this topic is here is because of the total lack of interwoven thoughts. But I will come up with some more information and that is going to be good. Oneway or the other, I'll let Jamey know about it.

    Your ambiguity of his son Steven allows for good or bad thought. Now let me ask you, if you were the son of Professor Chow (knowing the history and the good, bad and ugly) would you want that? Personalities are hard to deal with some don't mind the occasional flaw, but true Bi-Polar is very hard to deal with, what I have come up with about the Professor is not all positive.

    No 401 k, no pension, not much but memorial's after you are gone, struggling in your older years? Much more to life than what he would have inherited.

    I have talked to many who have chosen to follow in footsteps and others who prefer not to.

    I just watched a "semi doc" on "Sugar" Ray Robinson. Pretty sad. More common than not.

    You keep slipping, failing to understand me or my background. That is true lack of awareness. LOL

    Last edited: Feb 19, 2007
  10. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    OK, I tried once again to have a civil discussion with you. But all you want to discuss is all the vast historical knowledge you gained from training for 3 month's with one of John Leoning's color belts in the 60's. Which by the way you've never been able to prove that you even stepped into one of John Leoning's schools.
    And now your going to prove that a Kara-ho yellow belt is in fact a 8th degree. Your evidence: "He had a business card that said 8th degree"

    And yes I do understand your background. It is very lacking.
  11. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    I am having a very civil discussion with you. Most of the time it is going to end similar to this. Your slight about Wikipedia set the stage for the last response.

    Lacking in what John? Explain that last slight. I am probably one of the least lacking that I know of.

    You keep referring to 3 months, where did that come from? Explain? Have I mentioned that to you? You said that you found documents that had that in it or some such stuff. Sure, maybe Bill Ryusaki gave them to you?

    Lets see 3 months Bootcamp USMC, 3 months Academy LAPD. maybe these crossed over somewhere...Then Sea school and other such stuff, recon training. Then there is much other training I have done, thousands upon thousand's of hours over the last 50 years of training hmmm...

    At least I have never given myself a Dan rating. LOL others do though. But alas, NOT...

    Maybe we need to just stay on topic with this. And yes I will find out more about it. You can count on it. When this is over it will be quite clear.

    Last edited: Feb 19, 2007
  12. dianhsuhe

    dianhsuhe Co-Founder: Glow-Do

    Gary- Are you saying that Professor Chow was bi-polar? If so, what are your reasons for making this claim?

    Steven is a WHOLE other story....
  13. Pacificshore

    Pacificshore Hit n RUN!


    I'm still trying to figure out what the hell you are trying to accomplish here??? A tread regarding Frank Chow, but caught up with his Vernon Kam guy who claims to be an 8th dan in Kara-Ho, even after being told by Sensei James what Kam's rank status was in the Kara-Ho system?? Now alluding to Professor Chow being Bi-polar?? Like others have said, what information do you have to support these 'findings'?? I mean really, if you have them and they support what you say then fine, but 'stuff' coming by snail mail, or a blanket statment about what you have learned without some type of discloser just doesn't work for me or anyone for that matter. It's like putting the cart before the horse. So if you have a point to make....make it and be done with it.
  14. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    If you don't agree to what I have mentioned than we are not on the same page, that is for sure.

    I am waiting and will have to see what I am going to get in the mail.

    I have had a conversation with the man (VK)the other day. He mentions something quite different. I mentioned all I found out by Jamey etc. I am one who says it, and waits for the answer.

    I mean come on we have a sitting President of the US that was a drunk when he was younger, and it is talked about in open circle's, dont go Gary that is not true...LOL

    Professor Chow's life has been talked about by many on these forums. Now don't tell me you never heard he was some what crazy at times. And other times was not. In todays new and expressive terms that is a Bi Polar act...Opposite ends of the spectrum.

    Regarding this thread, I am not convinced from either side. I am the one who started this thread so it would not be involved in the memorial one, I am trying to find out about Frank Chow and Vernon Kam...

    Like I mentioned and have done in good faith I might add, given you a copy of the card and that is more than just talk.

    By the way they have figured Bi Polar is in the genes. So like father like son.
    It was mentioned openly at the other memorial.
    It is not a disrespectful term, his strange actions say it louder than words.

    Vernon Kam, 8th Degree "Phoenix Kara-Ho"...As in the new and reborn Kara Ho. He has not claimed Kara Ho, that is what you are doing. Said he was a student of W Chow. I get the feeling it was before the name change. The man is in his 50's...

    Last edited: Feb 20, 2007
  15. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    Ah, the business card proof. As easy as printing some business cards on your computer.

    The Kara-ho name change came around 1955 (52 years ago), and was used off and on since then. So being in your 50's wouldn't make you a student "before the name change".

    Lacking in just too many areas to list. But the more you post, the more it becomes evident to all.
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2007
  16. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    As far as the Business card statement it is for Jamey and he knows what I am talking about.

    I am not so convienced that the name Kara Ho came about that early,
    numerous names and changes and some others took them.

    So many stories so little time.

  17. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    John I have read that you are good friends with the GM of KaraHo.
    So if that is the case you might ask him a few questions before you post your thoughts. IMHO..

    I am not going to banter with you anymore. You put up you information and I'll put up mine.

  18. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    Yes, GM Kuoha is a good friend of mine as is Sijo Emperado. But since you probably wouldn't believe what they have to say about Kara-ho, I'll use a non-kenpo source. James Yimm Lee.
    In 1957 Lee wrote a book called "Modern Kung Fu Karate: Iron Poison Hand Training". Pages 7,8, & 9 are dedicated to Prof. Chow. On page nine is a picture of Prof. Chow doing a 3 man defense. Behind him on the wall is a poster reading "Kara-Ho".
  19. dianhsuhe

    dianhsuhe Co-Founder: Glow-Do


    Well as one may have predicted this has gone in an all too ugly direction. Every man is entitled to his opinion(s) but I feel that labeling Professor Chow bi-polar is uncalled for. The man is not here to defend himself, and lucky thing for anyone who would say these things. The man gave us soo much and got ripped off by soo many and you are going to actually lay an insulting internet diagnosis on him?

    Gary, I appreciate you sending my Vernon Kam's business card but I am not sure where we can go from here. I have spoken to Grandmaster Kuoha and his personal aide, repeatedly I might add, who were both present when Vernon participated in the VIDEO-TAPED demo. at the mall in HI. I provided detailed information about this man and have verified both his training with Professor and when he rejoined in 1998. What are you aiming for here?

    We do not have a stake in this other than that there is apparently a gentleman who is falsely claiming rank in Kara-Ho (Yes the Kara-Ho name goes way back). He was a yellow belt in 1998 and not a very good one at that. But what does this guy Vernon have to gain? Much I suspect...

    Kara-Ho Kempo keeps IMPECCABLE records and this is by Professor Chow's request. It was put in place to control exactly what we are talking about now.

    I do my best to be restrained and respectful on these forums since I openly wear the banner of my system (as many do NOT) and virtually everything I type has come from Grandmaster Kuoha's lips to my ears.

    To be honest, after a good training session at Grandmasters house (like tonight) when he invites all the students and instructors to come in his home and he has cooked for all of us, I feel silly asking him these questions from, "some internet guy who got a business card from another guy at a memorial... Then the internet guy calls Professor bi-polar....".

    Do you see how classless your posts are perceived? Regardless of your intent (which may or may not be harmless) it is offensive and does nothing to further our discussion.

    I am done with this thread unless someone somewhere has a pertinent question-

    Irritably submitted,
    S Jamey
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2007
  20. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    Not only the book that John told you about, but in Kuoha's first book there is a photo0 of Prof. Chow from the 50's in front of his Kara-Ho banner;. It's been verified many ways that that name goes back that far.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page