Brother of William K.S.Chow (Frank)

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by BGile, Feb 14, 2007.

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  1. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Hi,
    I have a question about the brother of Professor W Chow. I have thought about the issue and have come to the conclusion that when you are second and not as famous you take a back seat. Should this man not be mentioned in the same circles?

    Frank Chow....Is there anyone out there that has studied with this man? Also is there more information that might lead to a good conclusion as to his quality of training? I have looked and found some information, but I was hoping for others thoughts.

    Regards,
    Gary
     
  2. Kwajman

    Kwajman Penguin in paradise....

    Heck a lot of us don't know who the first guy was either.
     
  3. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    And rightfully so, I might add. :D :D

    Gary
     
  4. KenpoDavid

    KenpoDavid Working Title

    :eek: of course everyone knows the grandfather of kenpo in America!!! LOL
     
  5. Kwajman

    Kwajman Penguin in paradise....

    Well I'd heard the name but I don't practice kenpo. :)
     
  6. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    Actually Frank was probably third. John Chow-Hoon would most likely be the second most well known of the Chow brothers.
    I just sent a email off to their grand nephew who lives down here in Huntington Beach, to see if any of the Chow brothers and sisters are still alive.
     
  7. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned


    That would be nice to know, I am wondering why none attended the Chow Memorial other than the nephew of Chow. He mentioned to me he was not a martial artist but might take it up. He was amazed so many showed up for his uncle. Maybe he will be at the memorial in Hawaii.

    I don't know if it was the same one, as you are mentioning John. I believe he lived in Hawaii. I only spoke to him briefly.

    Gary
     
  8. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Here is an interesting answer to my question about Frank Chow.

    Gary,

    Frank Chow? Oh you mean Professor Chow's imaginary brother! When I went
    to Hawaii in 1959 Ed Parker gave me the addresses of over 20 people to
    look up. There was no Frank Chow on the list. When Ed Parker came to
    Hawaii later that year, he took me with him to meet his friends. We
    never went to a Frank Chow. Professor Chow never mentioned his brother
    Frank Chow, and Ed Parker's father, who I knew well, never mentioned
    Frank Chow. The first time I ever heard of a Frank Chow was when Ed
    Parker wrote that he first trained with Professor Chow's brother, Frank
    Chow.

    There are many problems with this. Not the least of which is Frank Chow
    was a young boy, about Ed Parker's age (16 years old) in 1947. Sun
    Chow's last child was born in 1925. Rose, the mother, died in
    childbirth
    and the child was given away. Chow was 14 at the time. Sun Chow went
    back to Hawaii in 1928 and took all his children with him, EXCEPT,
    Celia, Josephine, Rose and William. The only brother I know of was Ah
    Tim, who died in China.

    See the problem? Rose died in childbirth, and that child was given away
    (hanai). Sun Chow took all his children except the 4 to China with him,
    so where did Chow get a younger brother named Frank? If he existed he
    would have to have been born before 1925, and before Rose who was the
    youngest child when Sun Chow took his family to China, which means he
    would have been born between 1914 and 1921, so he would have been at
    least 26 at the time he supposedly defeated a big bully who would have
    been 8 years younger.
    *******************************
    To all:

    See, I am getting into is a whole new quagmire, LOL... No wonder people are afraid to answer a valid question with a valid answer.

    When asking other's they just don't have the depth of knowledge of this person.

    I have to keep asking question's because we need answers and some times they clear that question up and add confusion (to some but not others).

    I was asking another and he said to me, don't ask questions, train... LOL I am training both my body and my mind thank you...Not a very old person either.

    So anyone else want to take a stab at who Frank, was or is???

    Gary
     
  9. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    Ed Parker's first "formal" kenpo instructor was Adriano Emperado. People who were close to him know this. Frank was a church friend who showed him some very basic stuff.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2007
  10. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    John, if that is the case where did EP jr. learn all the judo or ground arts, before he ever took any Kenpo. So, maybe Sijo knows Frank. What are his thought's on him?

    Lester Chow (nephew) was the person at the memorial.

    Gary
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2007
  11. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    Parker learned boxing and some judo before he hooked up with Chow. And no matter what anyone with a agenda has to say, William Chow DID teach JUDO too.
    There are still people alive like Adriano Emperado, James K. Roberts and Tony Lasit who will tell you that Chow taught judo. And that there was also a time that Hawaii was under martial law, and martial arts training was not allowed, so Chow only taught judo (because it was considered a sport).
     
  12. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    I have read that Professor Chow was a person who took some lessons but he hated the ground and became very good at not going there because he was a street fighter, and like all who have had many fights in the street know it is not someplace you want to go.

    One of the reason's I have so much respect for Chuck Liddell, he has shown which is the better of the two. Striking is hard to beat especially if it is a weapon as a baton or gun used to bash someone in the face instead of killing them to save your life. But if necessary you have to do it.

    I have had to use both in bad situation's but not yet become deadly force necessary...

    Sport is a key word. I was under the impression that Professor Chow learned the art of ground fighting from China, (that is where his family came from and some went back), but he preferred the Boxing arts. in China (sick person arts was it not the term).

    What is plain to all by now should be the very difficult ability to really know the agenda of all those who have gone on, and will go on being involved in MA.
    Unfortunatly it is money and power, or so it seems.

    Gary
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2007
  13. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Back to the post origin, Frank Chow. Was he a brother or not???

    In his series of Infinite Insights EP sr. mentions Frank as a childhood buddy, page 23 #1. He also mentions he had knowledge of Judo at 16, if EPsr. used the term knowledge I would say he ment more than just a curious passing of an hour or two.

    The only problem with Frank (that I can figure might) if in fact William had a brother by that name or a childhood buddy of EP's at 16 Frank would have been about 31...LOL He further goes on to mention on page 24,25 and 26, some very good information. Pictures you have to love um.

    So back to the question who is this guy, Frank?

    Interesting time line:

    http://home.comcast.net/~matthewabarnes/page4/page8/page8.html


    Gary
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2007
  14. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    William Chow has at least 15 siblings in Hawaii and China. The only one still living is Evangeline (Evan).

    Children of Rose Naehu and Hoon Chow
    Josephine 1909
    Cecelia 1911
    William 1914
    Frank (Kwai Hoy) June 2, 1916-April 18, 1976
    Albert 1920
    Edward (Kwai Foo) 1921
    Evangeline (Evan) 1922
    Kum Yung 1923
    Eleanor 1924
    Rose Marie 1925
    (4 children died as infants)

    Child of Lily Mahu and Hoon Chow
    John Chow-Hoon


    http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=ancestorsearchresults.asp
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2007
  15. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Busy with the production line that was for sure.

    So if Frank was born in 1916, then, how could he have been a childhood amigo of EP sr.?

    Maybe, you could go to school at any age, that could be the answer.
    That could also be a reason for being able to whip the bully 14+/- years or so his senior (bullies) is good for starters. But then the bully might have been older or younger. :D

    Thanks John.

    Gary
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2007
  16. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    My mistake, too many notes. Frank was born in 1916, and was a "church" friend of Parkers.
     
  17. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Now if Vernon Kam was studing when he was 8 years old with Frank and he is now in his 50's he could have just wanted to say I was a student of William's since he was much more well known than Frank.

    One tech or one broken egg does not make the omelet... :rolleyes: So I am going to have to call V.K. and do a telephone interview and I'll get back to all about this. ;)

    So it is still up for grabs if V.K. is an 8th Dan of his own school, the new from the ashes up..."Phoenix Kara Ho" school? :D

    Gary
     
  18. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    John I dont think it was your mistake, I found it in the Infinite Insights book while I was contesting some other stuff long ago. I have mentioned I have a lot of books and articles, I read all the time and reread again and again. It is what happens when you don't sleep and need to do something besides Naihanshi 500 times a night LOL.


    Edit:

    Believe it or not I am actually about 90 if considering the amount of things I have done, for I am not one to get a full time in the rack (sleep) like others. So in my years I have built many house's and done many other forms of labor besides, cushy stuff like now LOL...One of the reasons for some failings. LOL
    No rest for the ...... they say.

    Gary
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2007
  19. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    I don't know what this means? I was just saying my first post stating Frank was born in 1918, was a mistake. The correct year is 1916.
    The notes I'm referring to are some of my personal interview notes of Mr. Parker. Most which took place before the publication of the "Infinate Insights" series of books. I wouldn't take notes of something in a book, since it's already written in the book for future referance.
     
  20. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Yes I can see where I missed the reason since I did change my typed post to show the change in the date, thanks for clearing that up.

    I did call Vernon and we talked, he is going to send me some stuff via snail mail. So when I get it I'll put it out for all to read. Told him when I get the info I'll get back to him. He was busy and needed to get back to what he was doing. He is from the area of Hawaii that Frank was from. He also confirmed that he had passed away in the same year that you show.

    His knowledge of Nick Cerio seems pretty legit. I'll have to talk to Joe Shuras about it.

    Gary
     
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