Hi folks, Just wondered what everyones thoughts are on this. Assuming that at some point, your stye/system goes on the offensive, how do you get from out of range to an effective range safely so you can apply your skills?
Several methods, stepping techniques, sliding techniques, jumping, even spinning technique'll close the distance. Step in blocks are another one, but I still prefer the step-in punches.
hi You can't beat kicks for closing or opening distances between people...eg project in with a front kick , engage in some hand to hand shananigans and disengage with another front kick( jumping/stepping back). other kicks work equally well......
closing the gap? If you're forced to go on the offensive, then you should all ready be within striking range(as they're all ready a threat or struck you ) - be it punching, kicking or elbow/knee which ever you use will be determined by the situation!
It depends on your preferred fighting range. I prefer to be close but not grappling so I will try to bridge the gap using various blocks eg. bong sau so that (theoretically) I can use my sensitivity training to interpret, respond to and control my opponents attack. Obviously easier said than done though!
Sore and bruised from training with a complete nutter Why do you want to close the gap? Surely as enlightened beings we seek to create space and avoid confrontation..... HA! Bet you thought I'd gone mad. A powerful front kick can easily take you from kicking distance into punching/grappling if you follow through with it. Smothering a punch can also bring you into grappling range. Or if your a big lad/rugby player/ace Judo player (the last ones me honest) you can ram straight in hard and fast on the assumption that anything that does get you ain't gonna be that powerfull, or in the Judo case you can slip the strike and come in close. Andy can you just clarify what you mean by bridging the gap, cause I may have just gone off on a complete tangent. Thanx
Bridging the gap is very important not just in getting into a contact penetration situation but it also helps you to maintain your leverage and fulcrums in a contact manipulation stage. Closing the gap doesn't mean to me that I can hit the body targets alone. Each attacker has 7 depth zones and the first zone starts at the hands and wrists and the feet and ankles. Sometimes hitting the forearm of the lead hand or jamming the lead leg allows for a great distraction. If I am looking to get closer to the attacker, assuming he wont back up, I will do it while making sure I have nullified his width zone and height zone.
clarification Hi Andy, I'm a little unclear on the meaning of "forced to go on the offensive". In what situation would you be forced into this. I can see it happening in a tournament. Your oponent refuses to attack and keeps playing the defensive game or running. But how would it happen in a real life situation? Once an altercation begins you'll already be "inside", there shouldn't be any gap to close. Morphus said: I agree with this statement. Tommy
Tommy P, Sometimes we may have to be the aggressor, expecially in multiple opponents or if we are somehow cornered or boxed in by the environment.
Re: clarification Hi Tommy, I'm not saying anyone would physically force you to go on the offensive (e.g. shove you unawares from behind), but a situation can be so potentially dangerous, that it may be better to take initiative and strike first. An example might be someone walking towards you, who looks you in the eye, and pulls out a weapon. Another might be that you are already involved with one person, but another is closing in. In each case, you would be 'out of their range', but to take the initiative would require you passing through an area of danger until you can fire off 'in your range'. From my point of view, I agree greatly with Lynne; "I will try to bridge the gap using various blocks eg. bong sau so that (theoretically) I can use my sensitivity training to interpret, respond to and control my opponents attack." Lynne is talking about Wing Chun, and getting a touch on someone is more important at times than being able to see them in this style. I hope I answered this question from Freeform with the comments above; "Why do you want to close the gap? Surely as enlightened beings we seek to create space and avoid confrontation..... " You can't make a Thug Omelette without breaking heads Regards to all Andy
Hi Thomas, Sorry, I have to disagree here. Based on personal experience I have to say that those two particular instances will aready have you inside. Being cornered means the aggressor will be attacking, so HE will be closing the distance. As for multiple opponents, again, they will be coming at you. If not then it's a situational thing dictated by their actions. Andy said: Andy, You got me I can't answer this. IMO, this also is situational. If he's close enough, which I assume he would be since a thug doesn't want to have to chase you, then I may be able to attack without much gap closing. If he is far enough I may be able to run unless the weapon is a gun. Actually you may fair better running in that case also. Against a club or a knife, once again "he" has to make the first move, so the distance would be closed by him. Depending on the situation, and all are different, I may see a chance to attack and overcome. Maybe I'll spit at him, swing my jacket or belt, throw dirt in his eyes...kick, fake ....who knows......situational. Every instance is different and in my opinion can't be planned for. You just need to have a good and full tool box Being involved with one person and another is closing in.........you know what I'm going to say right Yup.....your already in. No need to close any gap.....just hit him however the situation dictates. With the other assailent, with a kick, a poke in the eye....whatever floats your boat depending on where he is when you spot him. I still revert back to my original post and opinion....in a street altercation your already in.....DEEP .....believe me there won't be any gap to close. Thanks for your patience gentleman Tommy
Everyone has a slightly different answer to the problem, showing the diversities of each art and i could give another but theres no point, it still depends on the situation. ie. the size of the attacker, liquered up or are you?, weapons involved? multiple attackers?etc etc. So how can the question be answered with one particular technique - it can't.
Hi Morphus, It depends what you think the question is, and that's possibly unclear phrasing on my part. As stated a couple of times by Tommy, and yourself,yes, it would be situation specific. I assumed it was unneccessary to state this. I was thinking more in terms of applying principles rather than particular techniques. e.g.1/ Attacker comes straight forward, so I move to one side, so I am outside his immediate weapons while he is within reach of mine. e.g.2/ Deliberately leave an obvious opening, to force a particular attack, hence, an opening to exploit on the attacker. e.g.3/ Shoot. etc
Tommy P, What if he is behind you? What if he pushes you and he got the push off? I agree with you about it being situational but and that there is no one answer to this question, but I do believe that thought should be put into this and here's my number one reason 1. If you are following up with multiple strikes you need to constantly bridge the gap or maintain the gap so that you strike effectively and on target. If you hit the attacker properly they should at the very least stop the forward action, but I don't think we should take it for granted that the attacker is going down on one strike, we need to follow up and to do this we need to maintain the gap or bridge it as Andy has said, and for this reason alone I believe that bridging the gap should be a consideration.
So Andy (forgive me if I'm being terminally dense) what you mean is how to continually be on the offensive whilst maintaining your own protection from blow to blow, ie if you hit him hard enough to move him you follow up but maintaining cover? How to get in without being hit? Maintaining arm to arm contact so he can't strike you with has arms (bloody hell, thats chi sao, can I be an honourary chinese stylist? ) and slip in to strike using your own strikes as blocks also. Hope my lill' ramble adds something.
Hey Freeform, even I can't be continually offensive Not quite what I meant, It's the actual crossing of zones and ranges. Getting in and out. Closing with your opponent without taking a hit. As an M Artist your awareness is important here, but you also need good recognition skills too. If your awareness is good, and you 'know' it's going to kick off, then what is the first movement your opponent(s) is(are) going to throw? As you close range, you are already trying to neutralise options (with your footwork and guard), possibly even making your aggressor happy that his groin kick, or wild clubbing right is going to work. And when they do'o, and when they do'o, close, neutralise and take em out. A you mentioned Chi Sau, and others have stated that often situations can kick off, and start at close range, the same thing applies on a closer scale. Chi Sau is just another form of awareness. When the adrenalin pumps, and the heartbeat races, it becomes harder for your brain to process visual information. Chi Sau is tactile and reliable, allowing you to sense an aggressors movements. I feel most comfortable here. I feel less comfortable, when I do not have contact with the other person. Just another tuppence worth Andy
OK - getting back to the original question. How do I like to close the gap? I'll be the first tyo admit that in most real encounters it's a question of "What gap?" The gap closes as soon as the action starts - it needs no help! So - IF I have the chance here's a few points I consider. 1. Inflict pain and then use that "ouch moment" to close the gap. examples include... - Stop hits (lead low side kick to the knee, eye jab) - Limb destructions (Elbows to attacking tools, inner thigh kicks, outer thigh kicks) 2. Fake & change level - e.g fake eye jab, deep double leg with penetration step. I like to open the gap too - in a BIG way. My main method for this is chimpanzee-jitsu - Run backwards flinging crap in his way whilst screaming and wailing like a banshee []
Hard question to answer because of so many variations... Like asking 'whats the best way to counter a punch'... I think the gap you're talking about is the difference between self defence and self offence. We use many different ways to bridge the physical gap between opponents including attack rolls, 'waving hands like clouds' Tai Chi move, etc. but I have to say for my money that nothing beats a sniper rifle (kidding!). Sun Tzu and Musashi both advise that it is better to attack than defend (best defence is a good offence...) but it's kinda hard to explain to the cops that you broke a chair over someone's head because you thought they were going to attack you. Andy, can you take my quote off your posts? Blush everytime I see it... Anyone else here ex-military?
I like to be at grappling range with an opponent so my prefered method in a slow, controlled walk in, where I can be in position at any time to move to another stance quickly in case they do something stupid (like attack). Then after manageing to get close enough that we are almost touching hands (touching would be preferable) try to around to their back or side (most people assume a boxing guard with one shoulder forward and don't switch as they are predominantly left or right handed) with footwork to try to work into a position where I can attack safely (I know all attacks are vulnerable). Bridging the gap IMO is going from out of range where the only attacks that hit are missiles and verbal to somewhere where you can hit with fists, feet, weapons, etc. I think that it should be more of a smooth movement into an attack rather than a move into position then attack. Now when does a fight start? When the intent to strike is formed? when the first strike is thrown? I think of it as when the intent to strike is formed. Now you could be face to face with the opponent when they decide to hit you or they could be a few metres away. Now if they are a few metres away before you can hit them or whatever you need to get in range. If your opponent decides to move to you then your problem is solved but if they decide to throw something at you then you will need to get to him before he pulls that knife of his and hurts someone. The movement to him should involve a few steps where the feet actually pass each other and are almost scraping the floor so that you can gain a good stance immediatly and the last step should lead straight into your attack.
