Brazilian Juijitsu?

Discussion in 'Hapkido' started by Kraen, Feb 28, 2009.

  1. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    actually, i think that these posts show how ignorant mma'ers can be. hey, you like doing bjj/mma. great, have fun. don't denigrate what i do because you're drinking the kool-aid.

    as i mentioned, i've trained in hapkido, judo and now aikido. i do not think that static training is the way to go, which is why i mentioned other tma's that already have the concept of "live", which include aikido. no, i don't think that i'm a badass. but i also don't think that bjj or mma is the end all be all.
     
  2. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    what a brilliant retort. do you have more?

    it interesting that you mentioned 1992, because 1993 was the first year of the ufc. brilliant marketing move: create a competition with rules that favor ground fighting, stack the deck with a bunch of guys that have no idea how to ground fight, wait for your guy to win, declare your martial art the ultimate, open schools across the country. absolutely brilliant.

    and finally...my favorite ufc player is chuck liddell. what i love the most about chuck is that when guys try to take him to the ground, he holds his ground and keeps the fight standing up, so that he can f*****' pummel them! you people realize chuck is a karate guy, right? karate...as in a tma.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2010
  3. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    He is also a division one wrestler and BJJ purple belt... who trains for M.M.A.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2010
  4. spidersfrommars

    spidersfrommars Valued Member

    could you post a vid of some of this alive training you are doing in your aikido/hapkido just to make sure that we're talking about the same thing?
     
  5. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    don't need to post a video. it's not bjj or mma or judo sparring or competition. you already know that. the way my buddies and i train alive is to: take a knife, try your best to stab me; or, here's a stick, try to pummel me; or, i'm just standing here, try to kick my ass.

    spider...you're interested in bjj or mma, right? well them i'm sure you've done some research on where all this came from correct? in my mind it's jigoro kano and judo that is the real progenitor of what we call mma, or more precisely "sport martial arts". and if you read jigoro kano's own writings, you'll realize that he took away many, many techniques out of his own jujutsu because they were unsafe in a sparring or competition situation. many of those techniques made it then into judo kata. so are you going to try to argue that judo kata sucks too? or that kata has no application? jigoro kano himself said that judo consists of randori, competition AND kata.

    neither aikido or hapkido is sport...this is the whole point. self defense "not equal to" sport. there are things that you cannot do in sport that you can on the street.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2010
  6. Herbo

    Herbo Valued Member

    ..but without testing them in a sporting or at least sparring setting, how can you ever hope to pull off your deadly moves if you've never been able to practise them on a resisting opponent.

    Bottom line is you're not actually gouging the eyes out of your "buddies" otherwise they'd no longer be your buddies.
     
  7. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    does your knife defence look more like this....

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peETawlNV1g"]YouTube- Hapkido Knife Defense Demo[/ame]

    or this...

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=439707796897158934#docid=4390904988613454229

    ?
     
  8. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    hello...

    haven't watched the video, don't care to either. because you pulled out a video of some stooge doing hapkido, doesn't mean that hapkido isn't effective. i think we can all agree that no matter the art, some teachers are better than others.

    best defense against a knife...run. second best defense, another knife. never..i repeat..never use an arm to block a knife attack. even if you're successful in blocking, all the attacker has to do to cut you is walk away. if you have to engage empty-handed, try your best to limit the damage so you can move in and finish them. probably don't have much time to do that though, especially if you've been cut.

    since we're talking knife defense, you realize that aikido is based on samurai combat arts. you know the samurai? dudes with 3-foot blades in front of them. why wouldn't you want to learn aikido then? why aren't you cross-training in aikido since it makes sense to learn everything?

    and since we're playing tit-for-tat...why the hell would anyone go to the ground in a self-defense situation anyway? i mean seriously. concrete is hard. there might be broken glass on the concrete too.

    this is a fun conversation. lol. let's keep it going.
     
  9. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    no2. All training has rulesets, when was the last time you punched your fellow aikidoka square in the face? in addition none of the above are fight enders, all were allowed in the early UFC's and the foot stomping still is allowed.
     
  10. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Well MMA does teach disenguagment and defensive footwork, and i would be suprised if your in better cardiovascular shape then many of the amauter fighters nevermind the pro's
     
  11. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Thats exactly why it must be trained, for example ''the absolute worst thing you can do in a street fight is to get punched in the face'' thats why its important to put on gloves and learn what its really like to get punched in the face, so you can learn to overcome this. This is pretty obvious to most people, but for some reason the 'here come grab my wrist out of context' lot dont seem to get it.
     
  12. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    People life own expereinces arnt a meme, a meme is something that gets passed on to another person, my own life expereince cant be a meme, untill a third person accepts it.


    Sport isnt self defense, but it is 95% of the unarmed (or armed if thats how you roll) of the infight aspect, since the majority of what you incorrectly call TMA dont cover the pre and post issues then your point is redundent for the reasons your making it.

    methinks your ego is the reason your getting emotional with your posts, if you cant maintain zanshin on a keyboard how are you going to manage in reallife tm?
     
  13. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    i'm just going to make one more comment..

    i hope i've been consistent in saying that i have nothing against bjj or mma. do i think it's a good idea to train hard, in a balanced manner, and not go through the paces? of course i do. and while i don't consider myself the ultimate badass (far, far from it), i have trained in hapkido, judo and now aikido. so i think i've had some breadth of experience. i'm actually thinking of going back to judo and doing that 2-3/month. it's really fun!

    all i'm trying to say is this...sport martial arts are great...timing, application of techniques. but i think it's also important to understand sport is not reality. and in reality, there are many, many factors that go into the outcome of a situation. i think that other martial arts, non sport, are better at teaching defense to those other factors. as one of the previous posters mentioned, you cannot gouge your buddy's eye out in training. you just can't train for that. jigoro kano, morihei ueshiba and choi young sool understood that!
     
  14. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Semi true, apart from the rules that favour ground fighting? which rules were they, the ones the let you bite, gougeand headbut, or the ones that let you stamp on a groundend fighter?
     
  15. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    this confuses me? you're saying that ufc rules don't favor ground fighting? huh? and that ufc allows biting, headbutts, gouging? please explain.
     
  16. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    No its not aikido is semi based on daito ryu which is the reformulated school of the Oshikiuchi (lit., “court self-defense art”) of the Aizu Clan, it was based on the ability to seize and control people in a formal setting, daito ryu first became popular once swords were banned in public and people realised that unarmed methods were more practical for use in that context.

    Unfortunatly many (but not all Yoshinkan and Shodokan are still ok) schools of aikido have become weakened due to the reversal of the classical method of transmiting 'combat' principles via two man kata with the teacher recieving and correcting the waza of the student.

    If you want to argue for historical arts, you should really know the history.

    Interestingly theres a big connection between sumo (or sumai) and the origins of daito ryu.


    On my part there are many very good martial artists from all styles, however often they are not able to teach this ability reliabily, and in all liklihood have no direct experience in correct hard Tanren training for the body and mind.
    For me combat sports do this, and they also lead me to a healthy, life afirming competative view on life, away from fantasies of 'dudes with 3-foot blades in front of them'.


    ps Aikido is mostly based on control of the clinch portion of the fight, you should definatly do something that will test out your ability in that range.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2010
  17. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    I was asking which out of the two videos your knive training was closer to. Maybe you should just watch them?

    Yes running is best if you can... again, maybe you could watch the vids I posted for you.


    I have already stated that I recognise the limitations of my own training. I have studied zero legitimate knife defence (at least nothing I would call legitimate). This lack of knife exposure/training is not the problem... the problem would be not recognising the gap in my skillset.


    Whether or not you go to the ground in a fight is not always a factor that is within your control (this has been previously posted, but should be self evident).
     
  18. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    The ufc allowed headbutting, groin shots, stamping (not sure about gouging) during its initial inception. Other organisations such as 'pride fc' allowed stomping and soccer kicking the head (when pride was still going).

    Vala Tudo is a sport with few rules.

    modern fighters need to be versed in a multitude of disciplines (just look at Chuck)... the rules do not favour groundfighting in their current incarnation (if they ever did at all).
     
  19. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    you're saying that that aizu were not samurai? huh?
     
  20. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    No I'm saying the Oshikiuchi was not a battlefield art, that Daito Ryu was not a battlefield art and that aikido is certainly not a battlefield art.
     

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