A Baptist church would probably welcome Satanists and try to convert them. There have been a number of lawsuits in recent years against private businesses and organisations, over what people have perceived to be discriminatory practices. Whether or not such a case against BSA would have legal merit is up for debate; but imagine if, say, a martial arts school put up a notice saying, "We welcome everyone. Except jews."
If the KKK and Nazis are allowed as organised groups in the US, I'm not sure why the Boy Scouts would have to change their ways. I'm not saying you're wrong, just wondering what the constitutional logic is.
It's not that simple. There's a long line of cases about fraternal organizations and country clubs. The super simplified version is that the analysis turns on whether the club is open to the public and whether the discriminatory practice is central to the group's mission (excluding satanists from a Catholic group would be; excluding Black people from a golf club would not be).
I don't know about the US, but in the UK you have to be recognised as a religion (by the Charities Commission) in order to qualify for protection under discrimination legislation. So a person without religion does not have the same protection for their (lack of) beliefs as a religious person.* How does it work in the US? * Although the European Convention on Human Rights does protect beliefs more widely, but we will have to see whether the UK keeps this law, or similar, once we leave the EU. Further reading: Paganism, religion and human rights | Law & Religion UK
The idea that you have to register to be protected from discrimination is hard for me to wrap my head around. Do you make people of color register to be protected from racial discrimination, women register to be protected from harassment, etc? In the USA, atheists are generally protected in the same way that religious people are; the federal government has defined religious discrimination to include discriminating against people who have no religion. Questions and Answers about Religious Discrimination in the Workplace The Boy Scouts can legally do what they do because they have made a case that religious practice is a fundamental part of their mission. I think that's pretextual and absurd--in practice, they're really about the great outdoors and community service--but so far, it has not been successfully legally challenged.
It's actually a lot more complicated than that. Different areas of law have different definitions of religion! But, for some bizarre reason, the Charities Commission generally acts as the arbiter for what constitutes a recognised religion under English law. As I said, we do have further protections, for the moment, under European law, but our statute books are an archaic mess. Blasphemy laws were only abolished in 2008! The laws on discrimination regarding sex, sexuality and ethnicity are a lot more recent, because previous laws were discriminatory themselves, so they do not suffer from the same complications.
Of course not. The Blue Spaghetti Monster is a heretical cult not recognized by the orthodox adherents of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.Or viewers of Romper Room.
There is no such thing as single sex Scouting. There hasn't been such a thing in a very long time. You are awesome for phrasing the rhetorical question..dare I say, ribald.
They're not demanding you be dogmatic or go to church every week. They're asking that you claim to have some sort of spiritual purpose. If you don't, good luck I guess, the dice is all you have. There's a code and all, the "Scout Laws". They're good laws, I've followed them my whole life. The "he/his" part isn't that big a deal, is it? What is scouting in the Isles called again? Ah yes.."Scouts UK". A Scout is Trustworthy A Scout tells the truth. He keeps his promises. Honesty is part of his code of conduct. People can depend on him. A Scout is Loyal A Scout is true to his family, Scout leaders, friends, school, and nation. A Scout is Helpful A Scout is concerned about other people. He does things willingly for others without pay or reward. A Scout is Friendly A Scout is a friend to all. He is a brother to other Scouts. He seeks to understand others. He respects those with ideas and customs other than his own. A Scout is Courteous A Scout is polite to everyone regardless of age or position. He knows good manners make it easier for people to get along together. A Scout is Kind A Scout understands there is strength in being gentle. He treats others as he wants to be treated. He does not hurt or kill harmless things without reason. A Scout is Obedient A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobey them. A Scout is Cheerful A Scout looks for the bright side of things. He cheerfully does tasks that come his way. He tries to make others happy. A Scout is Thrifty A Scout works to pay his way and to help others. He saves for unforeseen needs. He protects and conserves natural resources. He carefully uses time and property. A Scout is Brave A Scout can face danger even if he is afraid. He has the courage to stand for what he thinks is right even if others laugh at or threaten him. A Scout is Clean A Scout keeps his body and mind fit and clean. He goes around with those who believe in living by these same ideals. He helps keep his home and community clean. A Scout is Reverent A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others.
Scouts announce promise for atheists For the UK Scouts. " The Scout Association in the UK has announced an alternative version of its membership promise for young people who do not believe in God. From January, instead of vowing "to do my duty to God", scouts will be able to promise to "uphold our scout values". The new promise will exist alongside the core scout promise, which has remained unchanged for 106 years. The Church of England, the Church of Scotland and other faiths have welcomed the move."
We're discussing the Boy Scouts of America, and they most certainly expect you to engage in religious tradition of a mainstream religion, not merely "be spiritual." Again, this is a direct quote from the BSA webpage: "Young people need faith. There is abundant evidence that children benefit from the moral compass provided by religious tradition. We acknowledge that faith can become an important part of a child’s identity. Each of the major faiths breeds hope, optimism, compassion, and a belief in a better tomorrow. Scouting encourages each young person to begin a spiritual journey through the practice of his or her faith tradition. One of the key tenets of Scouting is “duty to God.” While Scouting does not define religious belief for its members, it has been adopted by and works with youth programs of all major faiths."
I think the case for the opposite is more compelling. There is not enough time in one lifetime to try out all religions that have ever existed to see which one is true. It is down to the roll of the dice as to what religion you are born into, or stumble into later in life, and the interpretation and cherry-picking of religious scripture changes over time within all religions.
But apparently only as long, as they agree to it and allow it. As for the 'not demanding'-part: Well, apparently that is exactly, what they expect from the kids. That's something I can live with and think is totally fine. Especially because it doesn't force kids to "suddenly believe" in a God (let's be honest, kids like that would just pretend. Gee, when I went to my first holy communion I had to confess before. I know I and several others even invented some things to confess, so not everyone would say the same: Lying, being nasty to the parents, the usual kids stuff), but let them keep living their life and whatever sort of belief - even it is not to believe in something.
Every Catholic I've ever talked to about it has said that they lied as a child in confession, just because they thought they had to have something to confess!
So, why is girls in scouting an issue in the US again? In Australia, it's very much a non-event. I have two girls in the scouting movement here and a third starting next year - Scouts Australia is co-ed (apparently has been since 1971 according to Wikipedia). Is there some sort of organisational history in the US that is fanning the flames over there? On the second topic, the promise over here used to be to be true to my God, but changed last year to being "true to my spiritual beliefs". Funnily enough the sky didn't fall in, civilisation didn't collapse and the moral compass of today's youth didn't apparently shift one iota more than it would have otherwise.
What can I say - we're awesome! As far as I remember, our problem was very mundane and child-like: We were told that we have to say everything and be honest and the such - but all we did (gee, we were 8! ) was usual kid stuff: Disobeying the parents or teachers, maybe a little lie, not doing schoolwork/ homework. What little kids do. But from the sound of it, it felt like if we wouldn't have something else to add, it would seem as if we were not being honest. I have no idea, to be honest, what I could have invented, to made it sound more "honest"; since I was an utterly boring kid, that only did stupid kids stuff. Who knows, maybe I even only planned on lying and was satisfied with what I wouldn't need to make up lol
You must be an ex-Catholic. Am I right? Kid's don't care about God unless their parents make them believe, like the Easter Bunny. I do believe Scouts promotes belief in a deity, but I disagree that they make any Scout's life difficult because of their belief system. Scouts is about skills and ranking systems. The last 10 years of BSA policy changes reflect that. Gay leaders, girls....what's your problem. if ye be Men? The oaths about God are less than 1% of Scouting. Saying grace at meals (yub a dub dub thanks for the grub), and that sort of thing, and maybe helping gravel a church parking lot.
There are no female Eagle Scouts. the highest honor in Scouting. Eagle Scout is only available through one path, and it didn't allow women in the USA until 2017. Meanwhile, some male Eagle Scouts are so upset about this, they are dialing into radio stations to complain.
To be frank, you haven't talked to that many Catholics. And there's always something to confess...otherwise you're claiming to be perfect. Kids have a lot of guilt to confess, and Christian priests provide an open, honest sanctuary for sharing. I was never "judged" during confession...were you? I had serious stuff to get off my plate, and it helped.
