Boxing work against karate?

I cant believe that some karate black belts came to your school and used hard blocks in sparring. Also, a lot of you say "whenever I see a boxer vs a karateka...", how often do you see a boxer fighting a karateka, really? Even in mma tournaments theres never somebody who's just a boxer or just does karate, and it's not like they each go into eachother's schools to challenge the other style. What is a street martial art anyway?

 

Exactly what I said, until you guys ignored me. :cry:

Yea, but seriously, if any blackbelt uses hard blocks aimlessly, then they are either joking, or have been fooled by McDojo's. I have only seen blackbelts use soft blocks, and when they use hard blocks, are only in drills, or actually, as attacks. Whoever these hard blocking blackbelts are, they should be shot for idiocy.

 

maybe ivan leiko or the federnator or minatoro or maybe even crocop. younger, stronger, and hot as hell! besides, mike would steam roll over a lot of mma guys, just not these. he isn't the mike that we used to know.

 

Crocop would take Tyson in his current form and would cause a big problem when he was on top form.

But he is something else.

Tyson is no spring chicken anymore though so his time like all greats has sadly passed.

 

The last thread was correct Tyson's time is just about done. He doesn't have the power, speed, timing and stamina (which he never had a lot of anyway) that he used to. But he still has enough power that if he gets in close to many of these mixed martial artists he'll kill them.

 

He will mess up most people irrespective of art be it trad or MMA.

But that is beacue he was an opponent at the top of the fight game, I do think the statement about his lack of ability is wrong, he is technically skilled and very good with speed, timing and execution of his ability, I think time away from training methods he used to have and age are his downsides.

Also his height as there are a lot of tall top boxers around now, also the myth has been broken, much like the gracie myth - still top fighters but not the unbeaten gods they once were.

I would say make no mistake Tyson was LEATHAL in his day, just time has caught him.

 

Do you have the height/weight of all the fighters you named?

 

Yep, I still wouldnt want to be caught on the wrong side of him.

On the original question, which is stupid, yes Boxing can and does beat karate. The most experienced fighter wins the fight, irrespective of fighting style.

 

I'm not sure I agree with that, look at his fight with Lewis where he kept getting clinched all the time, and imagine what will happen if an MMA fighter clinches him.

 

My thoughts exactly!

 

at my school we train in TKD with a "minor" in western style boxing.

It boils down to the skills of the individual, just like ANY style a vs style b discussion. We have folks who are very strong on the boxing side as well as some on the TKD side. Neither of them will win simply because they are a boxer or because they can do a butterfly kick very well.


"Internet sparring" aside, you can't say any one style "works" against another one, it's simply not that simple.

 

Boxing and K-1

While living in Japan I saw quite a few match ups between boxers and K-1 type fighters who either came from a Muay Thai, Seidokaikan or Kyokushin (karate styles) background. What was consistantly true though was the boxers were past their best (and that's why they were fighting in a game that paid them less. ) and they had obviously done no work ( absolutely none ) preparing themselves against things like leg kicks. Sometimes it was the legkicks which shut them down directly, other times they opened them up for for knockouts they would not have otherwise fell prey to.

My feeling was consistantly this: If these dudes had done a months work at a Muay Thai or full contact karate gym to learn how to deal with these techniques the outcomes would have been far different in these fights. The boxers play at a far different level when they are in their own fighting range and a good boxer is no stranger to elbows, illegal though they may be.

But they didn't and they got their butts handed to them in most cases. The problem was they were just showing up for the pay check and probably didn't train at all and didn't care about the outcome.

Tyson has talked about showing up for the K-1 for about 2 years now. If he goes for it (which I don't think will happen anytime soon) in my opinion he'll fare the same as the others because the conditions are the same and his motivation (or lack thereof ) will be the same as the above cases.

And it won't mean a thing...

It won't be the Tyson who dominated the heavyweight division for so long. It won't be the Tyson who trained so intensely and appropriately for his early fights to learn how to deal so effectively with much taller, larger opponents. If you took that Tyson and trained him appropriately for a match against a kicker people would be carried away, just as they were when he was in his prime in boxing.

People say Joe Louis would get killed by today's fighters. If Joe Louis was fighting today he'd learn how to deal with todays fighters. That's what real champions of any era do. If Tyson was in his game and seriously wanted to challenge kickboxers and and full contact karateka he'd have been able to do so. The level of play in boxing is at a much higher level due to both the money and number of participants in professional boxing. ( Just my opinion. )

I also believe it is the fighter and not the style that wins but you have to have that fighter at the right moment in his career and with the right motivation to be able to make fair comparisons, I think.

 

Yes boxing can work against karate. I think it would really depend on what the stylist does, I'd love to see this, kyokushin practitioner against boxer

 

I haven't read most of this thread but I agree with mateo's post above.


The most important part of your training, whatever the style, is to train effectively in a live situation against a fully resisting (preferably skilled and unskilled) opponent.

 

Good post Mateo, I was chatting to Ikken about this once and I agree with him about boxers and k-1. No really good boxers ever enter it because boxing pays much better, and if you took a good boxer and taught him decent kick defence he'd be a force to be reckoned with, much like Crocop learning to sprawl, then entering MMA comps and doing well.

 

I need to ask something - if you teach takedown defence and/or kick defence to a pure boxer, can you still classify the boxer as a boxer for the purposes of a style vs style match up?

I mean, since we're on the topic of style vs style match ups, I would assume that each stylist is training at their own respective schools/gyms, in their own style. What are the chances of seeing a karate stylist executing a perfect double leg takedown and finishing with a submission. I wouldn't expect a boxer (as an extreme example) to score a KO with a roundhouse kick to the head. I wouldn't expect to see a BJJ guy winning the fight with a spinning back kick to the head either.

 

thats a good point, for the interest of a boxing vs whatever match it wouldnt exactly be fair to teach the boxer how to beat the other guy before the fight

 

tactics

I think if you got a good boxer and taught him to always move in/ counter aggressively when the opponant kicks-to destroy his range- he could destroy many karate fighters.

Karate, as I understand it does not emphasise the clinch (the other way to beat the boxer whilst still standing up).

 

I'm all for teaching a boxer how to fight within the "boundaries" of what boxers usually do. If you teach a boxer to avoid kicks and takedowns by improving his footwork then that's fine. But when you start teaching the boxer how to sprawl.. that's coming a bit closer to MMA-type training.

 

I personally believe that its not what you know. But how well you know/can use it. I've heard of boxers that can take on almost anyone, and at the same time have heard of Karatekas that have completely lost control in a fight, and as a result, have been royally beaten (in some cases, by average fighters). So I don't think that it comes down to what style you use. But how effective you are with it, and how you apply yourself to the situation/task at hand.