Boxing and Brain Injury.

Discussion in 'Boxing' started by StevieB8363, Apr 30, 2011.

  1. Seventh

    Seventh Super Sexy Sushi Time

    Though that be pretty kick ass if a boxer was a medical professional speacializing in the human anatomy :)

    Punch to a humans weak point yeah!!
     
  2. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    Boxers DO punch to the human weak point...
    [​IMG]
     
  3. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

    How many people in that paper box? Or are they all to mentally handicapped to write their names?

    The banning boxing brigade have been about for years, they're not getting anywhere.

    Boxing is a multi million pound sport, tied up with sponsors and big corporate names, it's benefit to the economy means it will not get banned.

    This is before you mention that boxing gyms are usually in less that privileged areas and are giving young people something to do beside stab each other (fleeting generalisation but you know what I mean) and a potential way out of 'poverty'

    The health claims are silly I've fought less than legit where me and my opponent wore 10oz gloves. I never wear a head guard in training till I'm 2-3 weeks out and i'm still alive.

    There maybe a risk, hell there probably is but I'm willing to take it, so are the other fighters.
     
  4. jumpfor joy

    jumpfor joy Valued Member

    Don't like it ...don't play !
     
  5. jumpfor joy

    jumpfor joy Valued Member

    I call for a ban on stupid people driving, serious!
     
  6. Hapuka

    Hapuka Te Aho

    I take it that wearing a helmet and keeping your hands up isn't good enough these days.
     
  7. StevieB8363

    StevieB8363 Valued Member

    I'm afraid there were many more. List of ring deaths. The first table lists deaths before 1890, the vast majority would have been bare-knuckle fights. Quite a few deaths, but it's impossible to know how many fights took place in that period, so no real statistical value.
    Modern statistics show boxing as having a low death rate, but high brain damage rate - which is the main point the BMA is pushing. It's quite possible that bare-knuckle would be safer, for reasons already mentioned. Hard punches would likely break bones - hand or jaw - and end the fight. It's hard to imagine that boxers would exchange bare-knuckle strikes the way they do with gloves. Bodily injuries would be worse, but head trauma less.
     
  8. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    I reckon you're not going to be able to find reliable enough records on deaths due to boxing that go that far back. As has been pointed out in pretty much every thread it's not the death that is the big issue with boxing... it's the repeated head trauma leading to a whole host of issues. Though to my recollection it's not ever been studied in a systematic, scientifically sound, peer reviewed study. I'm not surprised by that.

    As for fish to fry... banning boxing doesn't even make the list.
     
  9. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    On the other hand Stephen Fry gave me the low death rate information. One of the unexplained rules of the universe is anything that man says becomes fact.
     
  10. Estrix

    Estrix Valued Member

    Yeah, to be honest that's exactly the route I took "If Stephen Fry said it, it must be true."

    It also just seems logical to me that greater trauma should equal greater chance of death really. If you're more likely to end up brain damaged surely your still more likely to end up dead?
     
  11. jumpfor joy

    jumpfor joy Valued Member

    combat sports

    All combat sports run risk of death and injury.
    I dont know anyone in any sport that hasnt gotten hurt.
     
  12. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Both NFL and Rugby have a lot of injuries in them that up until only very recently weren't taken very seriously and didn't get any media time. That's changed a lot in recent years. Sports in general are hard on the body. But not as hard as the days of old when the sport was war.

    Impact just isn't good for the head. But it effects everyone at a different pace and everyone has different motivations and reasons for boxing and playing sports. Boxing is often a target because it's perceived as violent. Which to my thinking is absurd... look at NFL... 300lbs of human hurtling at you like a truck and then laying you out... helmet and pads or no... impact is impact. Rugby has much the same... and there are no pads - impact causes problem there as well.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2011
  13. Fu_Bag

    Fu_Bag Valued Member

  14. StevieB8363

    StevieB8363 Valued Member

    Much as I admire Stephen Fry and his numerous fine performances I'm afraid I can't accept that as a reference.

    In short, no. To cause death requires a major injury, burst blood vessel in the brain, crushed windpipe etc. Even then, with an ambulance on hand (as it should be for any organised event) your chances of dying outright are pretty low. What the BMA is arguing is that even punches that are within the capacity of the body to absorb and recover from will cause brain trauma, and cumulative damage. You could wind up brain-damaged even if you have never been knocked out. College football (american) has twice the death rate of boxing, but apparently a lower brain-damage rate. Football players don't (usually) punch each other in the head, but they collide with far more force than any boxer's punch could generate. So head trauma and death rate aren't necessarily connected. Horse racing has a much higher death rate, but no-one ever complains about brain-damaged jockeys.
     
  15. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    Umm brain damage in jockeys is a big problem .

    I was at an FA medical conference the year Brazil won the world cup and we had a doctor/researcher from the Jockey Association speak to us on concussions.

    Concussions are a big problem in many sports and if I remember correctly a jockey expects to get concussed about once in 20 rides. Big problem over a career eh!!

    The Jockey Association had sent the doctor out to look for info and there was little evidence based info on concussion. I think that now there have only been 2-3 defiinitive conferences on concussion and evidence based guidelines have only appeared in the last decade. A large amount of info has come from one of the world's leaders in head injury, Aussie rules!!

    So Yes!! brain injuries are a really big problem for jockeys.

    FWIW

    LFD
     
  16. StevieB8363

    StevieB8363 Valued Member

    Thanks for that, I must say I've never heard about brain-damaged jockeys.

    So now that's two reasons to ban horse racing first. Three if you count Christopher Reeve. Granted he wasn't racing - but he still ended up a quadraplegic. Can't trust horses I say.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2011
  17. Fu_Bag

    Fu_Bag Valued Member

    The response is in...

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    http://www.thepja.co.uk/Concussion.aspx

    http://www.amateurjockeys.org.uk/2004/03/25/concussion_protocol/

    From ice hockey : http://www.hockeycanada.ca/index.php/ci_id/7699/la_id/1.htm
    concussion info card http://www.hockeycanada.ca/index.php/ci_id/18404/la_id/1.htm

    http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...peiyBg&usg=AFQjCNHmCDWJfu5vYEUyfW_7zvNX7OFOSg

    Is this short article it mentions that jockeys have 6x the rate of concussion of Aussie rules players!!

    To follow on from my previous comments about footie players I quote the BJSM - Br J Sports Med 2005;39:i58-i63 doi:10.1136/bjsm.2005.020776

    Value of neuropsychological testing after head injuries in football

    ''In series of retrospective studies,
    involving retired Scandinavian football players, cognitive
    deficits were noted.75 76 The results of these studies are flawed
    because of significant methodological problems. Problems
    include the lack of pre-injury data, selection bias, failure to
    control for acute head injuries, lack of observer blinding, and
    inadequate control subjects. The authors concluded that the
    deficits noted in the former football players were explained
    by repetitive trauma such as heading the ball, however, the
    pattern of deficits is equally consistent with alcohol related
    brain impairment, a confounding variable that was not
    controlled for.''

    Interesting that they found footballers to have brain injuries but were unable to tell if the injuries were from the footie or the drink ;' P

    It is often the appearance that counts more than what actually happens when it comes to putting things forward in the popular press. There is a lot information out there that might make you think twice about participating in a great number of sports.

    FWIW ;' )

    LFD
     
  19. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

  20. Fu_Bag

    Fu_Bag Valued Member

    Yeah, these are some of the CTE-related stories I was talking about in my post above (the one without the horse). Takes your mental capacities away, alters your personality, and can leave you with early onset dementia. Getting hard knocks to the head regularly over the course of a number of years can add up. CTE, TBI, and Post-Concussion Syndrome are interesting topics to research if you're taking those risks. It might help someone get in to get an EEG or MRI before they take that next blow to the head.
     

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