Both knees have torn meniscus :(

Discussion in 'Injuries and Prevention' started by Saved_in_Blood, Jul 30, 2014.

  1. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Double post
  2. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Since the article you posted that presumes to quote scientific studies originates from a company website which has a vested interest in the implications of the studies it presumes to draw upon and the claims made probably fall below the radar of MHRA (FDA for the Yanks) enforcement of advert claims, you have to be careful about what you are being asked to believe. It usually customary to have bibliographic references to sources, even if the studies referenced have little or no bearing on the products the company is attempting to sell.

    However, it does make sense from a mechanical perspective that damage to the meniscus and other similar structures in the body that result from wear and certain types of orthopedic diseases, rather than traumatic injury, would not benefit from surgery. If the rivets on a section of aircraft give way and a tear in the fuselage results, that section can be repaired ( surgery ) If a tear results from accumulated deformation and fatigue (wear), the airfoil has to be replaced.

    I don't know if that analogy holds water in this case, but I wouldn't be too surprised to find the basis of the article to be true.

    You know, it might not be a terribly bad idea in going to the trouble of an accurate determination of cause/causes regardless. It might have an impact on the course of treatments considered in the future.

    You should definitely do further inquiries regarding University-led, unbiased research in this matter - but go to the sources themselves.
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2014
  3. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    So very sorry this happened.

    I'll echo what others have said, follow the doctor when it comes to resting. I know it is hard, but a few months here may save a several year break from training down the road.

    I deal with knee issues- no tears or surgery - but chronic pain that limits some things I can do. It isn't fun.

    And I am glad to see you are doing research on treatment options. Educating yourself on treatments is a vey smart thing to do.

    People with tears in my school have usually been told to try and get it healed with time and rehab and all before resorting to surgery. Sometimes that worked, sometimes surgery has been needed.
  4. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    I'd be careful putting too much stock in Dr. Mercola. He's kind of a quack pot in general, has run afoul of the FDA several times, etc.
  5. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Right. True, surgery may be useless for certain conditions, but you can wager his herbal supplement oil is equally so.
  6. frownland

    frownland 【ツ】

    The surgeon may trim away the damaged bit, but might also do a repair (suture it back together). My surgeon waited till I was under, and he was looking at it up close before deciding which to do. If he decided to trim, I was to be on my feet almost immediately. As it turned out, I woke up to six weeks of wearing a brace and getting around on crutches.
  7. Bobby Gee

    Bobby Gee Valued Member

    Sorry to hear bro, frustrating when ya get an injury or two. A bit of time to put more work on stuff you usually wouldn't. It sux tho :)
  8. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Thank you. I was sitting at home last night and my Wife came in and I just said, "these things hurt". She said.. why? because you know what it is now"? Then I remembered, I had not taken my joint supplement (flexacil) in about a week or so. I also take 1/2 tsp. of MSM and 4-6 grams of fish oil everyday along with a multivitamin. Oddly enough it did show me how much my joint stuff really does help. I haven't done anything to further injure myself. Anyway, it's more just a side note to myself that I don't need any pain killers (which I have instructed them not to give me) aside from standard 800mg motrin which I take VERY sparingly.
  9. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Im waiting to get my one trimmed at the moment, most adults who do sports will have a tear or two by their thirties, it hasnt stopped me training I just have to minimise any further damage, get the op with a good surgeon and do plenty of rehab.
  10. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    I went to the ortho today and he recommended the arthroscopy... he needs to see the MRI to be sure, but by what I told him and his exam, that's what he thinks. He asked me if I wanted to get both knees done at the same time, which I told him yes. I'd rather get it out of the way.
  11. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    That's rough man, my thoughts are with you. You'll be back to kicking butt in no time.
  12. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    I've just laughed and laughed because it sounds so much like something my wife would say. One-woman sit-coms, are they not? Doubtful and skeptical of all except their absolute belief that they should have had careers doing stand-up at the comedy-improv, lol.

    The wife named our dog 'Lazy Sod' and took the photo, which is now my MAP avatar, as evidence of her apt dog-naming skills.

    Just don't let your missus bring a camera into the recovery room after your surgery :)

    I was going to take the Mickey out of you for your silly comment regarding your planned refusal to take pain medication but your wifey's comment put me in too good of a mood.
  13. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Yeah, aside from not having my usual joint supplements that I use on a daily basis the knees seem to be hurting more each day. Money is so tight over the last few months, there's not much to do anything. I'm saving some from not taking class sadly, but money is money.

    I refuse to take their pain meds because they want to throw opiates around like they are candy and soooo many people I know are hooked on those things. I won't use them... no questions. 800 mg motrin will have to be enough for me.

    On another note, my Wife and I talked last night and of course she wants me to get a second opinion, which I don't disagree with, but I will need to do it asap because they want to do the surgery in mid August. That doesn't give me much time to get in another appt. In the meantime the right knee seems to feel more and more unstable, in pain, and the locking up out of no where is dangerous when I'm sometimes carrying my little boy around.
  14. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Have an appointment tomorrow for a second opinion. I am curious if I have the issue, what will stop it from happening again? I'm also not to keen on having the torn parts clipped and thus being more susceptible to arthritis in that area later.
  15. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    I know I mentioned Cod liver oil to you on another thread...I hate it that you've had to give up your class. I need to remind you that for the sake of our physical and mental health, it is vitally important that we provide ourselves with a physically demanding outlet several times a week - regardless if its martial arts, rugby or competing in local marathons.

    People don't understand that; particularly wives until they've reached a certain stage/age. They don't realise what the unending daily grind does to their men. Kills their health, sets up early heart-disease, ends their sex-drive prematurely ( takes a while before they understand that without that drive the other drives to make money, be ambitious, etc., are equally lackluster ), makes them more susceptible to alcoholism, more prone to become involved in office liasons, etc.

    Society ( used for another term, you understand ) doesn't blink an eye at the idea that one must exercise their German Shepherd daily and vigorously on the weekends if they do not wish the dog to suffer any number of maladies and then die very early. Doesn't think twice about it.


    I realise that with your knee issues, you are on hiatus, but I've a feeling that even without that, you could be in a situation where you are being pressured to feel guilty about the little training that you do.

    If so, they need to know that its pennies on the dollar. It really is.
    Yes, I understand to a degree. I've known of some people to become extremely moody when on - or maybe when it wears off - certain pain medicines. If you're susceptible to that through genetics or have seen enough of those around you, I could see why you'd feel that way.

    I was fortunate in that the last two surgeries that I had, I didn't need any pain medicine after recovery and they always went to expiry in the cabinet. Ironically, the only time I really needed anything was when I tore my hamstring. I'd take a wrong step and :eek:

    Just something I learned. You are the boss here. You are the one who sets the calendar. If you feel that you are being rushed you can always reset the surgery for a later date. They will accommodate, regardless of what they seem to imply. Just as long as you don't wait too late after they've manned slots for the post-op nurses, anesthesia, surgical nurses, etc.
    Usually, they won't do this until after your pre-op physical and your meeting with the anesthesiologist shortly after that before its too late to turn back.

    I was supposed to have another surgery scheduled the previous couple of months for residual infections that I've been dealing with since 2012 but my own wife has a very serious spinal/neck surgery coming up in two or three weeks so I put it off. They accommodated.

    They will for you as well if you need time.
  16. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Yeah, to reply to some of the above... I'm trying not to rush things to much. The pain is not bad on a daily basis, but I know that if I tried to get right back into things that it would come back pretty quick.

    It was a little surprising, especially after everything that I read, to hear "yep, you need an arthroscopy done"... I mean 5 or so minutes of actual exam and you can come to this conclusion? I'll see what the other place says today... if they agree I will go ahead and keep my appt. for the surgery. If they don't, then i'll cancel it and get a third opinion depending on what they tell me my options at this other place.
  17. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Ok, got back and they gave me these horrible knee braces... they are nice as far as being a real hinged brace so they hold my knee area more stable, but they are seriously uncomfortable and I get irritated just putting them on, let alone wearing them.

    Still debating surgery so i'll have to just see how these stupid things come along.
  18. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    So...they are suggesting that the braces could, over time, provide remedy for your torn meniscus' or its just to stabilise your knees against further damage till you've had the surgery?

    If its the latter, as I suspect, I wouldn't hold my breath for any actual relief. I've a feeling that any bona-fide, evidence-based alternative treatment in lieu of surgery will involve LOTS of heavy duty, highly-skilled physical therapy combined with, depending on the root causes of your malady, such things as critical dietary changes ( there's been lots of studies suggesting that certain forms of bone disease/inflammation can be greatly worsened or relieved by eating/avoiding certain foods that metabolise to toxins in certain people.) Probably other forms of therapy/medicine that we'd not think of.

    Anyroads, wars on an aggressive, hardened and entrenched enemy are usually only won by those willing and able to fight on multiple fronts. Meaning there is probably no single majik bullet that will resolve the issue.

    Resolving oneself to the mindset that it won't be easy or simple and to do whatever it takes will be the first undertaking. I've seen relatives with similar maladies to yours give up because they were impatient and this thing of being given " a raw deal " entered into their heads, it was over for them.

    Of course, that's easy to preach to others, hard to make one's own
  19. Niinpo

    Niinpo 万変不驚 Banpen Fugyo

    This is so right, I have seen a lot of people come and go, often the ones that go too full on burn out, the ones that take it slow and surely stay.

    Let you body develop at its own pace was some great advice I was given once.

    But also to know that illness and injury are also part of nature.
  20. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    As it turns out, because of my flexibility, it could have contributed to the knee issue. My knee joint can flex more than normal and so the meniscus gets stressed more.. I guess during my pivots I was moving to much. I cancelled surgery for now and am going to start PT and then get into the weight room to build my legs up. That seems to be the best chance of stabilizing the joints and being able to get back into KB. I'm anxious to start up again, even though in all honesty, we needed the extra money over the next few months anyway.

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