Board Breaking

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by LewisHolder, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. LewisHolder

    LewisHolder Valued Member

    Within the world of Tae Kwon Do, destruction is part of its syllabus and its necessary in passing exams.

    Why do you do destruction?

    What does it prove?

    and is it difficult?
     
  2. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Destroying something is part of martial arts.

    It proves pretty much nothing in the same way that hitting pads "proves" nothing.

    No idea, I don't waste my time on boards :p
     
  3. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I'd suggest reading "Four Shades of Black" for the best description of how and why destruction can fit into the martial arts.
     
  4. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    1) Yes
    2) I don't - those who do often say it is a measure of striking ability/power/focus
    3) Nothing
    4) No
     
  5. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    I do feel that there is some truth to that. It has become more evident to me when we started to use the re breakable boards that were color coded as easy to more difficult AND when these color coded boards were placed into a holder, requiring no one at all to support or brace it.
    The ability to strike has to be delivered according to the mechanics required for each individual technique. Doing so in the air, followed by focus pads, target shields etc. does seem to enhance the learning & understanding process. Then if you then place the weaker colored board in the holder, it further forces the student to focus on striking the exact middle of the board required to do the break. Which btw is not the same with wood, bricks, concrete or some other breaking materials to the same extent.
    Naturally if one hits the holder, there is immediate feedback. So the student is forced to focus on that exact middle. They usually do this at the expense of power & speed. But as you increase the difficulty of the color coded plastic boards, the cheating or adjustment no longer will allow the break.
    So they can indeed be a powerful tool in helping to guide a student into a better understanding of the actual delivery required to be more effective.

    It seems that power text or board breaking has been part of the MAs since the Eastern Arts hit the West, which coincided with the increased TV & Hollywood coverage of the MAs. So breaking materials was a Kool visual that the video & still photographers took advantage of. Likewise these early MAs instructors & school owners took advantage as well to show what was then pretty mysterious in the West.
    1) We use it in training & during evaluations.
    2) As stated above it provides guidance & can enhance understanding.
    3) I am not sure it proves anything, but it can help students to focus & help build not only confidence, but the realization that through diligent, hard focused work - one can achieve. This underlying theme is what I think ITF TKD is all about. It was how Gen. Choi said the training of the physical leads to a better understanding of the "DO", or non-physical aspects of his TKD.
    4) Of course it can be difficult, depending on the individual, their respective G-d given talent, the point in their development & the strength of the material that is to be broken.
     
  6. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Why do you do destruction?

    The Japanese for it is tameshiwari which translates IIRC) as "trial by breaking".
    As such it should be a test. A milestone on the course of development.
    That's how it is used in the aformentioned "Four shades of Black". It's a test of commitment, conditioning, striking power, accuracy and in many ways confidence in yourself.

    What does it prove?

    It proves you can break the thing in front of you. Not mych more than that but not less either.

    and is it difficult?

    It can be. Depends what you are breaking really. Big muscly men can break stuff pretty easily with no prep but for more normal people it can be a real test. I brought a re-breakable board into class one time and most people found it pretty easy. But one fairly shy teenage girl didn't want to do it (more accurately she wanted to do it but was worried she couldn't). So I pushed it so it was only half connected. She used a palm strike, broke it and you could almost feel the boost in confidence emanating off her afterwards. :)
    That's the real value of breaking IMHO. It has limited use but it can be useful.

    And anyone that say breaking is easy it's easy should post up their videos replicating this break. :)

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACqW12LNUoo"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACqW12LNUoo[/ame]
     
  7. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    Good post & I forgot about this aspect! Thanks for reminding me. Conditioning is something often lacking or has totally disappeared in many MAs, once the kiddie invasion took hold. And it TKD's case, once the focus was so heavily placed on sport.
     
  8. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I think it's place has been vastly overstated, based on MA media as you describe, and I also feel there is little to no correlation - these days specifically - between breaking and the ability to execute a technique

    It is skillful at the higher levels, with multiple stacks et al, but is as much a test of "balls" and commitment than it is actual combat skill.

    However, this is as much to do with "not really my thing" because I can actually see some validity to having a physcial manifestation/measure of the skill
     
  9. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    When I see that break being done regularly at gradings I will do so - I can replicate those at will, but this one? ouch!

    That demo is a "freak break" that I have only seen a few attempt and a few fail miserably at too!
     
  10. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    Good points & I tend to agree that it may be more of skill development. But then again, to me, developing skill to a higher level is part of the process in then honing it to be effective in combat. But of course there naturally are more effective means to enhance combat, then traditional MAs. But TMAs, like ITF TKD are designed to offer more than combat skills. As such, it will not be as efficient in that regard, but the flip side is that we (or me & others) can gain so much more from the fullness of the TMA of ITF TKD that can help provide & support an overall development.
     
  11. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

  12. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Just hearing the shin hit the bat when he's lining it up makes me want to vomit. :)

    I think in some cases people reach a point and then forget or lose touch with where they used to be (or were never at that point in the first place) and then lose sight of why someone else might be at or need to go through that point.
    I'd hazard that Mr Hannibal would never have trouble doing a standard TKD break? Even years ago?
    But other people that aren't Mr Hannibal may not be at that level and find use in building to that level and going through it?
    Like the teenage girl I mentioned?

    For me it's a take it or leave it thing. I can see the utitlity of how it can work but few people use it that way. I've done arts without it and arts with it.
    I'm reluctant to do it these days as I work as an artist and value my hands more than I do the ability to break stuff (plus I'm a weed).
     
  13. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Like I said above I do actually see value in it, it just doesn't fit my paradigm and is as much about confidence boosting as martial skill

    Hannibal of today is 210 of attitude problem...of yesteryear he was a rather gangly 160
     
  14. LewisHolder

    LewisHolder Valued Member

    Does TKD focus on conditioning? For example bone conditioning?
     
  15. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Certainly within an occidental context it seems to be more a bi-product of the training rather than something that is emphasized
     
  16. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    Why? Because it was part of the test that I wanted to pass.




    As an instructor, I still use breaks for TKD tests and I use them once-in-a-while for my Combat Hapkido students, mostly as a confidence builder. Some people are very hesitant to commit to hitting something (e.g. a board) with enough power to break it. Once they pop a few boards with various techniques, they gain a bit of confidence in their strength/accuracy/technique. For TKD students' color belt tests, often it serves to make sure they use proper technique on their kicks (otherwise, it will hurt!)

    Beyond that... I think I get more practicality out of bags, pads and opponents as targets.

    In most cases, I would say "no", providing you are confident, using enough power, and have the proper technique.

    We do a single board break for each change in color belt (yellow, green, blue, red) and then a multi-station break for 1st dan (with spinning heel kick one of the required stations out of 3 or 4).

    For our TKD tests after 1st dan, we want the candidates to come up with something challenging, something that will require confidence, accuracy, power, commitment, and creativity. Candidates have a multi-station break (usually 4) and we put some requirements on, like we may require one break to be multiple boards (no spacers). The intent is for the more senior belts to come up with a challenge that they will have to stretch their abilities and confidence to complete it (plus it looks cool).

    Breaking isn't something we spend a lot of time on, but the main reward of it (aside from the fun) is in confidence growth.
     
  17. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    Conditioning (forging) is 1 of the 5 parts of the physical composition of ITF TKD & should be stressed as equally as basics, patterns, sd & sparing, but I think it is not.
    (Also not exactly sure of what you mean by bone conditioning)
     
  18. raaeoh

    raaeoh never tell me the odds

    Because I am a big powerful guy, with previous training in other arts I was allowed to break a brick for my yellow belt test. After that it was not useful for me any more. My kids are now using the brick as one of their goals. Every sucseful break boost their confidence a little more. So for them it is very useful.
     
  19. Asterix187

    Asterix187 Valued Member

    I feel breaking is a good demonstration of the ability to deliver the correct technique at a force required to actually damage something (or more importantly someone) if required. We do after all do a striking martial arts designed to cause physical trauma to the target (in most cases).

    As mentioned previously when students start having to hit things there is definitely a mental block that a large majority of students have in actually making contact.

    With regards to forging, aren't knuckle press ups in the Encyclopaedia?
     
  20. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    Yes but they call them push ups & they are only on the 2 big knuckles that comprise the ITF Forefist
     

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