BJJ vs multiple attackers

Discussion in 'Brazilian Jiu Jitsu' started by Theidiot, Oct 20, 2016.

  1. Theidiot

    Theidiot New Member

    Right from the start, I am not criticising Brazilian jiu jitsu. I am in no position to criticise it. I've not trained in it.

    So this is just curiosity from someone with an interest in all things martial arts related. Please don't take it any other way.

    Right here goes.

    The question must have been asked many times.

    Does BJJ work against multiple attackers. I don't mean a choreographed demo, or even playing complying with training rules. I mean a real life situation where some idiot picks a fight and all his mates pile in.

    I've had a look around youtube, but all I can find is multiple attackers politely taking turns to attack then get defeated.
  2. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    The primary utility of BJJ in a multiple opponent situation would be to get back to your feet if dashed to the ground, disengage at clinch stage and general advantages of physical toughness and mental fortitude which can be cultivated through training and competition. Increased cardio and anaerobic capacity means you are better at legging it too.
  3. Theidiot

    Theidiot New Member

    I must admit my curiosity is partly due to an awareness that in the style I've been practicing for the last 2 years or so, there is a distinct lack of ground work. That's partly why more recently I took up aikido to supplement my karate. Aikido too seems to be lacking in the ground work, other than the obvious falling practice.

    Our instructors at karate have mentioned that there is very little ground work anywhere in our syllabus. The philosophy being simply don't fall down, but with the greatest respect to our instructors, you don't always get the choice. I've been known to fall over having lost my balance in kick drill, and I'm not the only one. So if you can fall over when fighting thin air, I'm pretty sure you can fall over when fighting some idiot that's decided to start for no reason. Hence my curiosity about BJJ.
  4. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    BJJ is awesome. You should try it.
  5. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I think every martial artist should learn the core escapes from BJJ
  6. Vinny Lugo

    Vinny Lugo Valued Member

    I take BJJ and I contemplate this too. From what I understand they dont really train you to take on multiple attackers in bjj. However, one could easily treat treat the takedowns used in BJJ and use them to fight multiple attackers.

    If I was in a street fight with 2 or three guys using only bjj, I would toss each guy to the ground fast and hard and almost treat it like judo. I would not however, take them to the ground and try to choke them out for instance because their buddies could kick me while I am down.
  7. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    If your art cannot handle one person consistently well there is no need to contemplate multiples

    Similarly any instructor saying "we just won't end up on the ground" is - at best - a gambler
  8. EdiSco

    EdiSco Likes his anonymity

    I think you're more likely to end up on the ground in a multiple attacker scenario than against a single opponent. When you're dealing with multiple attackers, the chances of you losing your balance, being grabbed/grappled/pushed from behind etc. are much higher?? so BJJ would help you deal with ground situation quickly and get you back up on your feet.

    sorry, I've posted this video before but I think it's a good one on the subject of which martial art:
    [ame=""]Ryan Hall: Best Martial Art for Self Defense - YouTube[/ame]

    BUT the thing is you should do what you enjoy! I tried boxing and Judo and I found I liked Boxing and have stuck with it doing it 2-3 times a week. I'm really looking forward to taking up Muay Thai! I'm just don't like grappling I suppose. If you don't enjoy something, you'll never get "good" at it. Esp with martial arts your heart needs to be in it!
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2016
  9. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    Aye, not to mimic Hannibal, because he just happened to get on here a few hours before me, 20 years ago when I was too ignorant to know who I was talking with, one of the Machado brothers said this to me about one-on-one fighting versus handling multiple attackers: "You have to be able to beat one person before you can worry about several guys."

    But more specifically to the question, I think of the physical attributes developed by long-term grappling. To make an analogy, football players practice running through tires. There are no tires on the field during a game, though. Why practice running through tires? Because it develops physical attributes that are useful in a game. Likewise, an experienced BJJ guy has developed some bad-ass physical attributes that, to my mind, make the question of, "Can he fight N guys at once?" completely irrelevant. It's honestly not something that I even think about anymore.
  10. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    I don't believe you are talking about the art as much as the training.

    Does training in BJJ work against multiple attackers? No not really because the training is limited when it comes to multiple attackers.

    However, if you are talking about the art. Does BJJ the martial art work against multiple attackers? Yes, the art has no reason not to.

    Look at multiple attackers from the focus on combat principles. Just take one of these principles, and that is of speed. Multiple attacker is faster than one-on-one combat, so you have to be able to adapt to the speed. For example, if you perform an arm break/bar and you aren't that good at it, takes you ten seconds to get it on and apply it on one struggling opponent, that might be way too slow for multiple attackers. If however, you have perfected the arm break to under a few seconds, then you may be able to pull it off effectively in multiple attacker.

    The danger is if you try to pull off an arm break, knowing you are going to lock up and struggle with the opponent for a long time is a big warning sign that it won't be practical at your current skill level to apply in multiple attacker scenarios. You will need to focus on perfecting that technique and/or pick something else that can be effective in a short amount of time.

    Go to techniques you want perfected in BJJ are quick chokes and quick breaks. The stuff that takes a long time to apply should only be used when it is safe to do so. If you just aren't that good and experienced, stick to stuff you know works quickly for you. If you are really good, then the stuff that takes a long time for others that aren't as good, you can pull off quickly, so it is something you could use but others shouldn't.
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2016
  11. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    In order to be able to handle multiple opponent's you will need to maintain your own "mobility".

    - First, you will need to have the ability not to be taken down by your opponent.
    - Second, when you take your opponent down, you want to be sure that his arms are not surrounding your waist so he can drag you down with him. This will add an extra element in your throwing skill training.

    Your mind set will be different. In stead of love to go down with your opponent, you try not to be on the ground.

    Here is a simple test. If

    - your opponent can take you down to the ground within 3 minutes, he wins that round.
    - you can remain standing in that 3 minutes, you win that round.

    Test this for 15 rounds daily and record the result. Keep your record for 1 year and see whether your anti-takedown ability has been improved.
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2016
  12. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Good advice here I think

    I'd add that studying sacrifice throws may be helpful too - I've found them to work well when losing your footing which is quite likely with multiple attackers and uneven surfaces
  13. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    If you execute the sacrifice throw, you will need to be able to get back up fast. It requires some training to obtain that kind of skill.

    [ame=""]my leg block - YouTube[/ame]
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2016
  14. Theidiot

    Theidiot New Member

    Thanks for all the input. For the first time I think I'm convinced that BJJ is a very useful articles in general, not just for one on one in a ring or cage.
  15. greg1075

    greg1075 Valued Member

    No. You want to be able to stick and move. BJJ's inherent approach is basically the opposite. Even in a 'one-on-one' situation there are crucial caveats to keep in mind at all times.
  16. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I saw a Gracie Academy video about multiple attackers yesterday that had impeccable and unassailable logic:

    BJJ is the best martial art in the world, because early UFC.

    We have no tactics for multiple opponents.

    Therefore no tactics for multiple opponents exist.
  17. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Could you elaborate what you mean by "stick and move"?
  18. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    That's not impeccable and unassailable logic....
  19. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I was being sarcastic :)
  20. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Yeah I find the Gracie self defence stuff odd.
    They say some great stuff. They clearly understand how real fights (especially one on one ego fights) play out and how to navigate through those fights to their advantage.
    They offer some absolutely vital self defence knowledge (escapes, moving on the ground, getting up, distance management, releases, etc etc).
    They make all the right noises.
    But then make no mention of the fence, pre-emptive striking or striking in combination, which to my mind are also vital for self defence.
    And what's more those things are vital for dealing with multiples IMHO. pre-emptively hit the first guy that's close (or the most obviously dangerous one) and then keep hitting and moving until you...

    A: make an escape route and leg it
    B: drop everyone and leg it
    C: dish out enough comeback to outweigh their desire to fight you and they back off or run...and then you leg it
    D: you succumb to their attack and cop a shoeing and go to hospital

    It's like they have grappling coloured glasses on and see everything in that light and miss out other options. Almost like they have an agenda to promote what they do but not other approaches...hmmmmm.
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2016

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