BJJ training--harder than real fight?!

Discussion in 'Brazilian Jiu Jitsu' started by flashlock, Jul 16, 2007.

  1. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    Tim Sylvia...Jiu-Jitsu Master?
     
  2. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Won't do you any good in the car. Much better you keep it in your back pocket where you can reach it if needed. ;)
     
  3. flashlock

    flashlock Banned Banned

    "Oh, you want THIS? Hold on..." (wraps hands)... "just one second, you punk!"... (slips on boxing gloves). "Wait a second... uh... can you help me with this mouth piece? Cool dude, Let's wok uhn roll! ADRIANNNNNNNE!!!"
     
  4. Stevebjj

    Stevebjj Grappling Dummy

    Hold on. Let me get my mouthpiece... and my lead pipe. :)
     
  5. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    lol... yeah luckily it doesn't quite work out like that.

    More often than not you can tell when a situation is going to go **** up. At that point... no point in delaying. Slip it in and swing first. Surprise if 50% of the battle. Simple as that really. I've seen far to many people loose the element of surprise and end up paying dearly for it. Don't be one of them. :D
     
  6. kmguy8

    kmguy8 Not Sin Binned

    yeah.. i had expensive dental work too.... damn braces and implants
    last thing I need is somebody messing up my grill

    i do not bother with the mouthpeice.. unless it were there after training... clench and go mate
     
  7. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    That says it all :D
     
  8. onyomi

    onyomi 差不多先生

    Don't be silly... I can do BJJ rolling for 10 minutes straight, take a little break and then another 10 minutes. If a real fight lasted 10 minutes I think I'd probably collapse from exhaustion (of course, you'd want to avoid somehow allowing a real fight to last that long in any way possible).

    In a time-to-energy-expended ratio comparison, doing Longfist forms is more tiring than BJJ. Standup sparring is also much more tiring than BJJ, because in BJJ you're usually on the ground and can often sneak in mini-rests if you position yourself well and have good finesse.

    Of course, it is true that martial arts training should make you have much more finesse than the average guy off the street, such that should you get in a fight, your chances of being able to end it quickly or without wasting too much energy will be increased. So it is true that training is probably more technically difficult than most real fights because both you and your opponent do martial arts and are both relatively calm. However, I doubt much could come close to the energy expenditure of a real confrontation, simply because adrenaline will push you to put a lot more into every punch, push, grab, throw, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2007
  9. EternalRage

    EternalRage Valued Member

    In a form, especially one mixing soft and hard techniques, you can sneak in mini rests as well. Standup sparring you can sneak them in as well, just create some distance and just evade for a while.

    Impossible to do a time to energy comparison. A match in the Mundials is going to be much different than normal rolling in your gym.
     
  10. CKava

    CKava Just one more thing... Supporter

    I'm not so sure about this... I find BJJ rolling to be basically on a par with Thai Boxing sparring. They both leave you physically exhausted in different ways and the thing is there are many ways in sparring or rolling to give yourself mini-rests. How tough the sparring/rolling is I would suggest is going to be a lot more down to the duration of the rounds and the attitude and intensity of you and your partner rather than to whether it is grappling or stand-up.

    I agree with your points about the differences between rolling and a real confrontation totally however.
     
  11. onyomi

    onyomi 差不多先生

    Well, there's different levels of intensity in any training method... one can also do a form or standup sparring with widely varying degrees of intensity--I was just comparing the various training methods with the mindset of what most people will do at a class/gym. Sure, competing in some high-level BJJ comp would be much harder work than casual rolling at my local school, but then I bet even that high-level comp would pale in comparison to a fight in Ratchadamnoen Stadium (even if could avoid being kneed to death, I'm sure I'd asphyxiate before those guys got winded). You have to compare comparable levels. Therefore, if you compare high-level BJJ to high-level standup, I think standup is still harder work.

    Of course, there are ways to rest in standup or in forms. I'm sure one can even sneak in ways to rest in a real fight if very experienced... but there's more opportunity to do so in the BJJ rolling I've participated in than in standup sparring.

    I'm not saying BJJ isn't hard work, I'm just kind of trying to counterpoint the "ZOMG, we BJJers work sooo hard! We're like the Spartans in 300!" when in fact most other styles, when practiced well, are at least as much work.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2007
  12. flashlock

    flashlock Banned Banned

    I wasn't talking about "energy expenditure" in terms of difficulty--I meant overcoming someone.
     
  13. Connovar

    Connovar Banned Banned

    And your grappling related experience is.............................?

    Based upon my 35+ years in MA I would list in catagories and in order as follows regarding exertion:

    A) Freestyle wrestling
    Muay Thai
    Submission wrestling
    Boxing
    BJJ

    B) Kajukempo
    Krav Maga (unless one did the "fight" class often which then would place it in Category A)
    Shotokan
    JKD
    JJJ (because it was point style striking and little randori in my style)
    Tae Kwon Do
    Hapkido

    C) Ninjitsu
    Aikido

    Every street fight including one against a knife lasted less than 30 seconds (including one that was grappling only ending in a submission). The intensity is sky high. You are going 110% and the adrenalin is flowing. Only those items in category A were close enough to a real fight for me to consider them usefull for self defense purposes.

    While all systems have something of value for self defense I would generally only include those systems in Category A as being "good" self defense skill training IMO. The lower the ranking the less the value for self defense, however not everyone trains in do it just for self defense. Most of us are really "hobbyists" and there is nothing wrong with that. Just dont overestimate your ability to defend yourself and avoid fighting if reasonably possible.

    Obviously this is my opinion and there are also are many other systems I have not trained enough in or experienced which are not on this list.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2007
  14. CKava

    CKava Just one more thing... Supporter

    I agree that people being zealous about BJJ is silly but I still don't agree with your point. Pure standup and pure grappling are two different things but when it comes to high level competition your going to be exerting yourself a hell of a lot no matter what. Of course a pure grappler would not have the right conditioning to last in an elite standup tournament just like pure standup strikers generally have done very poorly in competitions allowing grappling. You expend alot of energy unnecessarily if your doing something your unfamiliar with.

    As for top BJJ compared with top strikers in my experience the standup fighters do not 'work harder' they just train differently because they are training for a standup fight. You can argue about the cardio work being different and things like that and then I would agree there is a difference but as for one being 'harder' than the other... I really don't see it. The guys who compete in BJJ that I know train just as hard as the guys who compete in Muay Thai that I know... they just train with different emphasis.
     
  15. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    Interesting...

    I won't go near the whole "real fight" thing, but I will say this...

    BJJ, I sweat. Profusely. And my cardio is much improving just by rolling (although I do spend hours at the gym working on it as well). IMO, it's the toughest fighting (sparring if you will) that I've personally done. I'm sure other people's opinions will vary.

    Kung Fu stand up. Rarely broke a sweat during sparring, too much time spent trying to apply the techniques. Really only sweated when I stuck with the basics.

    Kickboxing. Definitely sweated. I much prefer kicking and punching to grabs and locks when standing up.

    Make of that what you will. I'm a n00b at BJJ, but did KF for 3 years, and American Kickboxing for 2.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2007
  16. EternalRage

    EternalRage Valued Member

    Don't agree. Depends on how much a person decides to put out, and how much his opponent wants to fight back. There are plenty of jiujitsu matches that have gone hours in length, so really it depends.
     
  17. TeamAmerica

    TeamAmerica New Member

    There are a few quotes regarding this issue.

    - A pint of sweat saves a gallion of blood

    - The more sweat in peace, the less we bleed in war

    - Train hard, fight easy


    So I would say you have yourself a good deal.
     
  18. Zannen!

    Zannen! Banned Banned



    Where the hell are you getting these numbers from, off the top of your head.

    You stated an opinion as some sort of Stat.

    And everytime some one mentions thier 35 years experience it seems to include thier childhood karate lessons at the YMCA. So, every 3.2 seconds a a person with 35 years exerience in the martial arts will say something stupid about the martial arts.

    Jebus!
     
  19. JayKayD

    JayKayD Meet my friend PAIN!

    He did say "obviously this is my opinion"...
     
  20. Zannen!

    Zannen! Banned Banned

    I did read that he said it was his opinion.

    Since when giving a number value or amount of time an opinion, and note the sarcasim in my post, please.
     

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