BJJ slamming vs wrestling slamming

The basic wrestling rule is that your knees have to come down before your opponent. (In Folkstyle. In Greco-Roman doesn't matter at all.) But the general guideline for all three is that you have to come down with your opponent. This is my son slamming one of his partners.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeQf7VPa588"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeQf7VPa588[/ame]

 

Here is another example of a legal wrestling slam.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUS8f9CvoLM"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUS8f9CvoLM[/ame]

 

Ironically a lot of Judo Throws are legal in BJJ that don't even meet wrestling criteria. For example Seo Nagi is not legal in wrestling. Drop Seo Nagi is because your knees come down first.

 

My Judo Sensei who also holds rank in JJJ and BJJ would not agree. Virtually the entire syllabus of BJJ is contained in Judo Newaza. The reason BJJ looks different is because of the rule set. Arm Bars, the guard, Triangles, Rear Naked Chokes, etc all come from Judo, which is what Helio was taught. There is a form of Judo called Kosen Judo that is more or less identical to BJJ.

 

im not going to get into the history of BJJ because i've been through it a lot but technically OG BJJ didnt learn judo initially. at the time the BJJ orgs formed, judo was just coming to prominence in brazil as its own sport and BJJ was a splinter group of pre-olympic brazilian judoka who, before judo's formalisation in brazil, were called jiujitsuka

Kosen Judo wasnt a style. it was a youth* competition ruleset (for schools an unis) pretty similar to the BJJ that had greater emphasis on groundwork and hence lead to athletes aiming to finish things on the ground (and develop tactics for this).

the thing is, under a ruleset similar to BJJ or kosen judo - everything will eventually look like bjj or kosen judo.

its why so many weapons styles look the same. why K1 competitors have the same skill set and only slight nuances in technique differentiate their base style. its why indian combative wrestlers, american and british catch wrestlers have the same skill sets.

but i wouldnt* call escrima "european martial arts for Filipinos" or call catch wrestling "kushti for white people".

 

Ok the video with the to ladies was interesting. However i didnt catch what the proper technique for dealing with a guard jumper was. It just looked like she was preparing for a slam but decided not do and just lowered her to the ground.

That DQ video, alot of those i just cant see a way out of. Telling someone to just push the leg down and grap there lapel tells us nothing usefull. Their legs are still wrapped around you and locked, what would be the point of pushing there leg down? If they are locked together your not going to move that leg down?

From what im gathering the "nice and honorable" way is to grab there leg and lapel and gently. lower them to the mat..

Edit found one though i keep hearing from chadderz and others that you can turn this into a point in your favor, this does not look like a throw or a point in my favor. [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSXIvsnvjRI"]How to defend Jumping Guard - Judo for BJJ - YouTube[/ame]

 

Again ill ask, why should i give a fly crap about my opponent? My job is to beat him not cuddle him and play patty cake.. Why should i care about him? I dont want to be his friend i want to destroy him, to drive him before me and hear the lamentations of his women.

 

Basic human decency.

 

I honestly just needed a reason to paraphrase that awesome quote.:evil:

This thread is honestly why i wish CACC was bigger. Non issue in that circle..

 

It'd be an issue if catch was as big as bjj.

 

Not sure how, since it has been demonstrated in this thread that slamming is ok in wrestling.

 

Because its your opponants who make you better, bjj is effective because you can train hard without too many injuries.

Plus you dont seem to understand how guard opening works.

 

:yeleyes:

Actually no not all slamming is ok in wrestling, the knee coming down first has just been mentioned, as has the point about unnecessarily force and positional change.

Theres also a lot of confusion here about the context of ibjjf rules, the full scope of bjj and how effective slamming is.

Slamming - maps current version of restomping the groin.

 

Frankly the kind of attitude you're pretending to represent is a lot more common among people who don't actually train and compete than those who do.

There are- like in any sport- people who take it too far. But it's far from the norm. Go to a few BJJ comps and you'll find the people there, on the whole, are very nice.

It's the kind of attitude you see in MMA all the time, two people beat each other into a pulp then shake hands and congratulate each other after. Which is far more common than two people continuing a beef.

You really should dispense with the attitude about your opponents until you actually have opponents.

 

Incorrect I think you find its the real anti grapple :woo:

 

Yeah, that's two points right there, a solid pass is another few points and side control gives you about 8 points all in.

I think you sound like someone who doesn't compete, or want to do BJJ/one of those macho white belts that don't make it to the third session.

Guard passing is a skill. Guard slamming is not.


Please show me a guard slam and tell me it doesn't look exsessive.

 

You didnt really answer my question. How is that considered a takedown? All he did was let him fall on his own. Regarding the two lady grapplers, please point out the technique she used. All i saw her do was lower her to the ground.

 

Thank you, that made it make alot more sense. Chadderz why on earth would you say that? I see the person across the mat from me as my enemy, its how i psych my self up. I honestly was trying to make a joke with my Arnold paraphrase. This does not make me a macho white belt. I did No gi for a while and was fully engrossed in Judo, but exigent circumstances have ended those classes.

So were does it end? How many techniques will be removed or cuddlefied before BJJ is the grappling version of Taedo?(formerly Taekwondo)