BJJ effective in street self defense

Discussion in 'Brazilian Jiu Jitsu' started by Belfsst Samurai, Jul 8, 2010.

  1. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Same as grip fighting in judo and greco its all about the double inside control.

    also in answer to your (I think it was you cant find the post now) question about what happens if you do end up in guard and there punching you,
    these sort of tactics are usefull:

    [ame=""]BJJ Self Defense Lesson 3: The Street Guard - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame=""]The Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Guard Adapted for Self Defense & MMA - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame=""]Tim Ferriss - How to Survive a Physical Attack: Part IV - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame=""]Matt Thornton MMA Uncaged: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu for MMA Volume 4 - YouTube[/ame]
  2. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    How to close the distance with striking aggressors:

    [ame=""]Thomas Fan BJJ vs Kung Fu Guys in Hong Kong Round 1 - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame=""]Thomas Fan BJJ vs Kung Fu Guys in HK Round 2 - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame=""]Thomas Fan BJJ vs Kung Fu Guys in Hong Kong Round 3 - YouTube[/ame]
  3. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Nice video finds Fusen. :cool:


    OP: As I stated previously, the best I've seen is the single leg take down shooting in low to the weak side (e.g. left) leg of the opponent. This I have seen work more often against than other approaches and it is actually a move taught for self defense because it can be done when right in front of the opponent even if the opponent might have a weapon. It can be done as they go for a high attack, drop below their line of sight, causing the opponent to miss and freeze, then shoot straight in at the knee and straighten their leg.

    For a lot of what happens with discussing how to close the gap, the issues come up when you start to think and fight like you might in sparring instead of how it might be in the street. Sparring is training that often ends up at a range where you trade blows where in the street defense, that is dangerous due to the possibility of trading blows with someone much bigger and stronger or with a knife. So if you are worried about getting hit in the head with a punch, just imagine how bad it would be getting stabbed in the eye or cut across the throat with a blade.

    You can't stay in punching range, you start well outside of knife range, and when the distance closes, you get inside or take their back. There is no one way, it is a matter of do not get hit, aligning the body and entering with a superior attitude. Blast through the opponent like a fire hose through a wet piece of paper.

    If you come in low, their hands will not be in play but you have to check their knee(s). If you come in high, then you have to worry about the hands, so you must engage the elbow(s).

    I feel it is more of a mental shift to break out of the grappling mentality and realize that fighting is not pure anything, it is a mix of grappling and striking and weapons. So you must train in all to really get better at any one of these areas.

    Here is an old video... showing one of the best there is at grappling and you can judge for yourself if this is "pure grappling". I feel that even though it isn't a real street fight, it shows what usually happens in the situation where you have a grappler in a fight.

    [ame=""]Royce Gracie (Brazilian Juijitsu) vs Jason Delucia ( Kung Fu) Fight - YouTube[/ame]
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2011
  4. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Another observation about Fusen's bjj v tkd videos is the first two takedowns are both ones that every bjj beginner should know. Don't see the first one used by anyone apart from me at my club but its a pretty simple thing to do, second one I've never met a bjj guy who didn't know it. Third one was a bit more of a recovery after the tkd guy failed than an actual takedown but taking the back when its open like that is pretty instinctive after a couple months.
    What I'm getting at is nothing he did was exceptional, it was just basic white belt bjj,
  5. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Whilst most BJJ guys know those takedowns, the way he entered was nothing but beautiful to see he had obvious real experience in both grappling and MMA

    Those videos show a few things which are obvious to most grapplers, for striking to happen you have to be close to me, and that means I am in range to grapple with you, secondly staying upright when you are bipedal as a species and have someone hanging off you who is intent on taking you down is not easy.

    it also showed how hard it can be for a striker with no real grappling knowledge to impose his game, you can see how hesitant he was to throw anything because he knew as soon as he did he would be in range for a take down hence all the circling …he was scared to engage. Secondly whilst everyone has an idea about striking: even non striking know how to form a fist and throw basic (bad) punches grappling is not instinctive and everything you do when on the floor or in the clinch when new to grappling gets you hurt: Case in point extending your arms to push the person away gets you arm barred (video 1), grabbing the head gets you taken down hard (I think video 2 or three) and also sets up the arm bar (which he was hunting for in video 2 before switching to the back take) showing your opponent your back (video 2) or going belly down (video 3) all get your back taken and you choked out

    Adding grappling to your striking game (especially some wrestling) can make such a difference its not funny
  6. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    DP. Not THAT sort of DP. A double post.
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2011
  7. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I like how many people go on about grappling being slow compared to striking for SD.
    And yet the BJJ guy won those fights in about 30 seconds each time.
    Now that is longer that it takes to pre-emptively strike someone but it's also a lot quicker that standing and being open to counter shots while hunting for a KO shot of your own. It's also shorter than many real fights you can see.
    Much like boxing, when two evenly matched guys grapple it can go for multiple rounds.
    But when an experienced guy grapples a know-nothing it can be over in seconds (and usually is).
  8. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    AND...the BJJ guys was pretty safe the whole time he was fighting while the others guys were being set up for submissions right from the start.
  9. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    That wasnt TKD bro.
  10. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Another observation, the BJJ guys are able to take the legs away from the opponent while still keeping the use of their legs.

    I can attest that in most cases when I can't use my legs, my striking is not nearly as good.

    It makes the BJJ guys better strikers than the strikers in close quarters. So it actually could be argued that BJJ'ers are better strikers on the ground than the strikers.
  11. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    And I fail at reading massive titles in seems :bang:

    Sorry it was the chest protector
  12. Kyrotep

    Kyrotep Valued Member

    I was reading a guide on Gracie BJJ and one of the authors mentioned that, yes, if you are out numbered going to the ground is a bad idea, however so is trying to punch one of your attackers. Meaning, no matter if you are a striker or a ground fighter, if you are faced with several attackers, your chance of beating them all is very slim and you should try to escape.

    Saying that, I do think a ground fighter should at least have some basic training in striking. If for nothing else, so they can set up a take-down and avoid being hit in the process.
  13. roninmaster

    roninmaster be like water

    so i was recently sent to this article:

    based on the arguments of the man who posted the video in the article.

    to me and from watching his video he says BJJ is not for self defense specifically because of ( you guessed it) the threat of more then one person, and that submissions are ineffective.
    that the idea of a match fight- or fight between two people regardless of the fact that there aren't any rules doesn't prepare you for proper self defense....for some reason.
    and that subs dilute and are not necessary for self defense training.

    he argues they are "tactically flawed" due to you putting yourself in a position in which you can't defend from a second attacker, that you should go for the KO or immobilize with strikes instead.

    I'd prefure to keep my ideas to myself until I hear what the rest of my fellow Jiujitsuka think.
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2011
  14. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    He has no idea about Ju Jitsu - "going to the ground" is what these ignorant A-holes instantly assume it is about because they are too caught up in their small empires to actually find out what a system involves

    Every numb-nuts who cannot grapple for crap suddenly needs to justify their existence. Rather than fill in the massive flaw in their game it is a lot easier to say "that is not real self-defence"

    It is dishonest and illogical
  15. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I like this thread, and I intend to read it all, until then, I want to say to the OP that... Yeah, it is effective.
  16. Seventh

    Seventh Super Sexy Sushi Time

    Striking and grappling is like booze and gambling. You really can't have one without the other.
  17. Kyrotep

    Kyrotep Valued Member

    Like I said above, fighting multiple attackers is a bad idea no matter if you are a striker or a ground fighter, this isn't a movie and I'm not Bruce Lee.

    And as for going for subs in a street fight- for me, if the other guy gives it to me I will take it, but besides that, I would use my BJJ to work quickly to side control or a full mount and beat the sh!t out of him with fists, elbows and knees. Another thing about subs, in sport competition you see these guys slowly pulling down the arm bar until they other guy taps, in a street fight the arm bar is applied very fast and violently in order to break/dislocate joints, so it is still a viable self defense technique if he is dumb enough to stick one arm out.
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2011
  18. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    How long does it take to execute a straight armbar from guard? After getting the arm maybe 1.5 seconds?
  19. Kyrotep

    Kyrotep Valued Member

    Totally agree with you. Even if you prefer grappling, the striking skills can allow you to set up the take-down/throw and also help you protect yourself from getting hit when you close distance.
  20. Kyrotep

    Kyrotep Valued Member

    It depends on each individual situation. Like if the guy is able to defend it, or if your are on the bottom or top position. I can apply a step over arm bar from the full mount in under two seconds if my opponent isn't fast enough to defend it.

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