i've been training in bjj for a little over a year. and i have noticed that lots of people come and go. but most people go than stay. is it the same trend you notice also? why does bjj have a high dropout rate?
Most people can't handle the demands of a resistant martial art and didn't walk in expecting to be working so hard. Boxing, muay khmer, and judo are the same in my personal experience.
Well, if I had to take a stab at this, I'd guess that it's some combination of the following things: 1: The first month or two are the fool months. This is different for different people, but I've personally seen, heard and read that new guys spaz. You don't know when to rest, when to push, when to pull or when to tap. So, as a result, new guys beat the hell out of themselves. 2: BJJ involves intimate personal contact that a lot of guys just aren't secure enough to handle. 3: As a culture, western men tend to be a little fat and out of shape. As a combined result of this and number 1, the first few months are very injury prone. 4: The phenomenon that I commented on in my other thread, where the first few months for most guys are spent in a complete state of disorientation. This doesn't feel good, particularly to people who have always considered themselves to be somewhat athletic. No one likes the feeling of utter incompetence. 5: Money/Time. These two things are always a consideration, and BJJ seems to be among the more expensive arts to learn. 6: The BJJ culture. The truth of the matter is that many guys don't want to learn a combat oriented MA in a competitive, live sparring environment. I've noticed that the BJJ guys tend to be laid back but very competitive. There's a lot of contact, they tend to appreciate combat sports and are always measuring their skill against others. While this is ideally minimized in training (our coach stresses that the goal of sparring is to try and help your partner improve, not beat your partner into submission) participation in tournaments is encouraged. A lot of people are looking for WC or TKD and WANT that sort of a learning environment. While I like the idea of sparring and consider it crucial, I can also accept that other people may not enjoy being sore and having bruises all over their chests and arms on a daily basis. Anyway, these are the 6 things that I've seen. What do you guys think?
Right on point. Basically people can't take it. One you missed is the UFC wannabes who go in expecting to become MMA fighters in a month or two, and end up getting choked with the gi repeatedly. Then they go on a rant about how the Gi just slows them down/isn't for the street/won't work in the ring, and then they quit. I make it a point to choke them out no-gi before they leave
Good point, Kempofist. You can always tell these guys because they're the ones who go into the school and talk about how they're also starting Muay Thai 4 days a week, too... because it's the best. They end up training like madmen for a few weeks, injure themselves from overtraining and are never heard from at the schools again. These are the guys you run into who always manage to mention that they "used to train BJJ and Muay Thai."
Hmmm, how about the people who've tried it and feel that their original MA was more suitable (I could say 'more well-rounded', possibly 'effective in a different way' but don't want the BJJ'ers to kill me )
Some good points. I don't think that BJJ has a higher dropout rate than other martial arts, but that is just my opinion. I see dropout rates for various reasons, I would say the top five IME are: 1. Financial reasons 2. People moving (e.g. they were in school or in an area temporarily) 3. Job, friends or family commitments 4. Loss of motivation 5. Fear The loss of motivation is more in the lines of people feeling they aren't learning anything new. Some people might complain that they are tired of doing the same thing over and over again -- this could come from someone that has stayed passed the learning curve and don't feel that they are improving as quickly after that. This is a real problem for a martial artist that has become complacent in their training in such that they don't go outside their comfort zone. They have lost the "beginner's mind."
1) BJJ is inherently more difficult because progress is measured solely by mat ability acquired through lots and lots of rolling, which is not a bad thing, but very off-putting to most people. 2) Many BJJ classes are not structured to cater for beginners. People often don't get shown basic escapes and transitions until they have been learning for months so they don't even know what they should be doing. Lots of people who start BJJ have trained other martial arts and can virtually teach themselves, so this becomes the norm. 3) You have to swallow your ego completely and get tapped endlessly by lots of people. If you are used to winning, its not nice. 4) It is physically very demanding. Even if you're using technique and not strength, you still have to drill the move thousands of times and roll thousands of times to get your timing right. And thats knackering. 5) UFC syndrome. There are quite a lot of people who don't worry about your safety and will crank stuff on at full speed. You then can't drive to work, lose your job and can't afford BJJ classes. 6) Everybody is super-healthy in BJJ clubs so there is no social life, hence no reason to go if you are not training. People look for other places to meet people and don't train as much.
While this is certainly possible in theory, I can honestly say that I've never heard anyone say, "Yeah... well... BJJ is okay but it doesn't really add anything to my game." I have a black belt in crazy... and a t-shirt that says so. This is a great point. I can't really speak to other martial arts, but I can say that I've also observed a high turnover within the first few months of BJJ training. I don't know what the turnover is like in other places. While some BJJ schools utilize contracts, it's less prevalent in the culture than among other styles. This may also have something to do with it.
This happens in absolutely all martial arts. I train at an uber-traditional Japanese-karate club and we have exactly the same pattern.
I would like to add that a lot of the guys with UFC Syndrome were also former wrestlers. I notice that a lot of people come to BJJ from wrestling backgrounds, and sometimes they bring the obnoxious macho attitude of scholastic athletics with them. It's a really a shame.
at our club we have an 80% dropout.... people just leave us because either its too hard.. or they dont like training the old way... pure stances for the first few months...
If I were looking at BJJ and had to work on pure stances for the first few months, I'd quit too! Instructor: "This is guard. No, don't do anything. Just work on this stance." Seriously, though, in some other styles I could totally see monotony coming into play. My attention deficit would certainly come into play.
Some good points in this thread. Wow. The way I see it... many guys show up to roll... thinking that it's all about muscle. Then they start getting repeatedly tapped and choked by guys that weigh 50lbs less than them... their ego's take a big hit. A big hit. They're way out of their comfort zone. I find that many people (especially western men) are very claustrophobic about another man being so near. Not just in BJJ.... in Muay Thai I've got a lot of guys that it takes a big leap for them to get over the closeness of a clinch. But to me it's primarily about ego and comfort zone. Most of the dropouts don't like reality when it comes to rolling - that is gettin' tapped and choked by smaller guys - and they don't like dealing with the issue of closeness. Let em go... who needs em?
Anotlher issue at least for guys at my age (52) is the intimidation factor. Many of us in our prime were good athletes and now when we see classes with lots of young burly guys it reminds us our deficiences. It easy to want to give up and just relate it to age. Fortunately my club has a great group of guys (I am the oldest but there are two other guys in their 40's) and give us a break when we begin to gass out. Now with time my conditioning has gone way up and I enjoy training and its been over a year now. It encourages me too to know that people like Dan Inosanto got the Black Belt at 65 so maybe their is some hope after all for us geezers!
Not to burst your bubble but Dan Inosanto is in better shape at 65 than alot of "young" people. He is not your average martial artist.
You've got the wrong idea there pal.. I've done 4 lessons of BJJ so far, And i'm the youngest there. The teacher only just got purple belt, He's good, but he goes through the stuff way too fast. And im always asking my partner what's going on. I can barely remember anything i've been taught so far :| BJJ is hard too, With things like Wing Chun, It's fast and easy to learn. So more people can stick to it.
Great to hear your story. My other half started BJJ at 40 and found it really hard, especially since he's big so everyone really goes for him. I think that for anybody over 35 your average BJJ class is a really challenging environment, and quite off-putting.
I'd say thats the main reason, along with the fitness requirements - you have to accept that progress is going to be slow (unless you're some kind of prodigy or have a lot of previous relevant grappling experience). People lose motivation if they go in with the 'win/lose' mindset in sparring, concentrating on resisting/getting a sub rather than the opportunity to improve technique through pressure-testing. Something I think Garbanzo Bean mentioned over on Bullshido which I think is very important: going into sparring with some kind of plan.
