Biomechanics of Motion and Quietness

And IMAS was banned if I recall.....

 

Ya, that is what it seems like when you are training external, it does not take long to be on the same level as everyone else that has trained the same way.

If you are lucky one day you will meet somebody who has good internal skills and you will feel like a white belt again and nothing works on him, then you will know that you are missing something really big and then you will feel like you are starting over from ground zero.

Good Luck

:hat:

 

Do you really think that everyone who trains 'external' reaches the same skill level quickly?

What do you train?

What are your experiences with what you call external and internal training?

 

Well you can think your movements are a mix of internal and external, but if you cannot separate them and show the difference between doing them with internal and without internal, in any technique, then you are just doing external with some internal by chance.

 

Learning tai-chi set corrections is not going to make you internal, if your teacher cannot clearly let you experience the difference between doing an application on you using internal and not using internal and there is a big difference, then he or she is just doing external and should not be teaching internal.

 

To make it simple, external does not work against internal. If you can apply your technique and the other guy can't defend even in slow motion you are not using external.

 

Your just a beginner, you need to find an instructor who can show you the difference , and then you still won't understand it or be able to do it.

Start by finding some books that have some reference to internal. Then find someone that knows what internal is, not just theory.

Teachers that know it and teach it are very rare, external is taught everywhere.

Your not going to understand the difference until you develop a reference of internal to even have a dialog.

Most people I meet have 10 to 30 years of martial arts and have no clue what internal is, years don't mean much if you don't know what your trying to develop, you won't stumble on to internal.

 

You sound like a teenager who took a couple of Tai Chi lessons and read a Bruce Frantzis book.

If that's what you are, 'fess up and people here will help you.

 

Haha, everyone should be glad to be a beginner. The greatest masters were all beginners.

When someone isn't a beginner anymore, they stop learning. I believe all great masters who spent a lifetime learning understood the duality between being both master and beginner always.

If you really were trying to lecture others, you could say they are NOT beginners. Like I could say, Avenger, you are definitely NOT a beginner.

Wow, do you have any idea what you are talking about? Firstly, external training is a mix of hard and soft. It's like what was posted before it is in the symbol for yin and yang. In yin there is a small circle of yang and in yang there is a small circle of yin. It is all in constant swirling motion. You cannot have one without the other.

Okay, here is where I get weirder on the subject... :Alien:

Now while you cannot have a pure external training (because it always includes a mix of hard and soft training), I've said before it is possible to have pure internal training. This is a long path into the internal arts, including medicine and healing. If not done with a clear goodness, the path can be very dark. Of course I could be just joking about black magic and the dark side. :Angel:

In any case, if you are really talking about true and pure internal arts, then it isn't about just soft style training, but also the aspects of medicine and energy.

 

Most people I meet have 10 to 30 years of "internal" martial arts and have no clue what "fighting" is, years don't mean much if you don't know what your trying to develop.

 

Exactly.I don't come up with anything unique because many "internal" practices are -or were- utilized by so many Chinese systems that it shows the idea of identifying most CMAs as "internal" or "external" system is silly-even if some systems practice/depend on those practices more than other systems.

A punch in the nose is a punch in the nose,true.Howe'er,I've yet to talk, for example,w/any Karate practitioners,including Goju folks,who have a clue about the physical mechanics I limit my definition of "internal" to.So the terms aren't exactly meaningless,but they do lead to a lot of murkiness sometimes.Not to mention some folks' self-importance.

Oh,just $end me a check for two grand and I'll tell you all the "$ecret$".

I wouldn't say it's traditional, there are also plenty who didn't,but not uncommon to find those who confined themselves to simpler things like bone setting and first aid types of things. Not unlike some coaches in various sports today.

 

How can ya not love this guy?!?!

 

Hey I've been using the toilet for 30+ years, and some days are still a lot harder than others

Yet according to the schools of Nei Gong and similar places, they did in fact stumble on to 'the internal' (nei), after some lengthy period of study and practice (the gong part). That's the whole philosophy of Nei Jia/Nei jing practices, you study it by practicum, until it snaps into place (and that requires you transmogrify your body along the way, in the alchemical sense). Merely wanting or thinking about it really hard or reading a lot of books or listening to a lecture is not going to build nei gong. Even finding an actual, legitimate 'master' of nei gong is worthless to a student if they don't practice right, and there are so many fake or terrible 'masters' of nei gong to begin with, from what I have seen online and in the media. Tru 'internal' mastery seems to be not much more than a state of mind and the will to work out, more or less. The mysticism of it, while entertaining to some, is not a critical component of it. Indeed, few of the elderly who practice and benefit from Tai Chi, know any ancient Chinese secrets, do they? Nope just the state of mind and will to practice and with luck a decent teacher.

So, how could you possibly learn internal gong without stumbling across it? Learning every technique and its name isn't enough. If the skill ever comes, it's because you practiced to the point where you can do something you couldn't do before, like the older folks who practice Tai Chi and maintain or improve their mobility. What is MORE internal than that???

In my opinion, there's no secret to nei gong, other than learning training methods and getting your butt in gear. Nei gong can include anything from gymnastics to boxing (which are clearly 'external' too), which is why the term is so elusive. It's a purposely mysterious ideogram, to contrast it with the more self-evident 'external' Wai jia. So, if you try to say you've finally defined exactly what 'internal' is, that it's a set of super secret, complex instructions, and they/it can't be put into simple, non-cryptic ideas....you lost me Avenger. I think 'internal' is probably the opposite of what you claim it is.

 

This entire thread was worth reading for this post alone.