Big 12

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by bodyshot, Nov 18, 2014.

  1. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Maybe I am just not good enough at visualization, but I can't critique something like this. I need to see what is being done and how.

    I mean take #12. how do you break the grip, how do you strike to incapatiate, sweep or throw? Where would be another question, where are your targets when striking, breaking grips, sweeping?

    It just seems all to vague, might be great, might be terrible, might be somewhere in between.

    I dunno, maybe I am missing something? Or maybe I am just dense?
     
  2. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    Your not dense I was just trying to keep it simple Ive typed myself into oblivion the laast few days lols. Most of the grip breaking is done after strikeing your attacker and some times while strikeing the attacker and some times while blocking or dodgeing a strike from an attacker, sometimes you can break a grip with footwork or movement other times you gotta grab his hand to remove it. Theres more than one option and we try to offer them all so that everyone has a viable option that fits them not the other way around.
    I could post the foot work and clinch techniques we use but I dont think that would help in this instance.
    Now to Kave, bro Im not joining an mma gym, Im not going to fight in a ring or a cage, I dont need to get off the couch either but thanks for your humble concern, and I understand the techniques I can also understand that you cant understand my hyroglyphics, that sais I really wish I had some better examples because I think you could finally see what I was talking about.l
     
  3. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    I get you drift and sorry if mine was vague, I agaain appreciate the critique. The chole and head lock defenses we use are pretty basic and pretty effective actually, and we train with resistance and sympathetic motion, so Ive had a chance to practice it under a little pressure at the very least, actually my partner has tried ripping my had off a time or two.
    Question though what did you think about the 12 list Items themselves, I thought it covered almost everything.
     
  4. Kave

    Kave Lunatic

    Yup, I think it covers a wide range of potential situations. One criticism I would have is it seems like there is an unsureness whether you are training to fight a competent or incompetent opponent. You train defence against triangles, which you would only expect to have to worry about from a trained opponent, whereas training against a bum rush is learning to deal with untrained opponents. From the list of techniques I don't get a clear impression of the purpose behind the training.

    If you are training for self defence against untrained opponents then a focus on dealing with techniques like haymakers might be more relevant. If you are training to defend against trained opponents on the street then you may want to learn how to cope with straight punches. If you are training to grapple then defense against triangle is a useful skill, but it's probably not a primary skill for self defense. I just don't see any clear thread that ties all these techniques together. At best it comes across as trying to defend against an attacker who has watched too much UFC.
     
  5. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    I think its a very odd list.

    What is the framework for the choice of attacks? Why are there no pushing or stand up punching or slapping defences (the most common form of physical attack)? Is there any emphasis in the syllabus in avoidance, deterrence and de-escalation?
     
  6. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Bingo.

    I was going to ask, Bodyshot, what are the most common assaults faced by people in your area (researched from crime statistics if possible, not guesses)?

    Mitch
     
  7. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    How does the person with the weapon attack? What distance, what manner is the attack, what is the target?

    Also with the grabs why aren't you hitting first and then breaking structure?
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2014
  8. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Mine are Ninja and people serving tea.
     
  9. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Damn those sconeless tea-toting villains!

    Mitch
     
  10. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    Man, guys, thank you thank you thank you for showing some intrest in this, Kave everyone thank you for the critiques. OK theres so much above Im not sure where to start but Im gonna try.
    If you look at the technique list its self you see a lot of basic grabs, and hugs but you also see a few jujitsu techniques right, ok heres the thing. Alot of times a man will attack a woman or child with a hug or other grappleing technique, this is usually followed with going to the ground and punching or chokeing her and or rape. So some of the more basic technique you see is for women and smaller people to get a feel for dealing with wrist grab, hair glutch, and mear hug. Now in the places you see some more advance attacks like example triangle choke/sizzor lock please let me shed some light on it. Those two techniques are trained in the same block of instruction at my school and heres the reason I got, and I liked to btw, the sizzor leg body lock is common from play ground to battlefield to high school wrestleing and its jujitsu variation which is "loosely" kinda like the guard so learning to escape a simple sizzor lock is good but what happens all to often when someone tries to wiggle out, yup they wind up wiggleing into a triangle choke or the guy winds up putting you in a triangle choke...very deadly. So thats what we look out for among other things when we are trying to get back up from a sizzor or poor mans guard,whatever.
    As far as the punch defense goes we dont spend alot of time on that during self defense rather instead we spar this is done bi weekly and gives you a look at most forms of strike to deal with, newbies cant spar till they get a belt so for the first four months they do one steps after that its point sparring then its more contact. Hope that ansewers some questions.
     
  11. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    Also can I point out we are not a grappleing discipline, please remember that, our mission is to stay on our feet in 85 percent of the time, the only time we stay down is if we have good strikeing position on the ground and we can finish, other than that its keep your feet keep your feet keep your feet. The instructor says it like a mantra all the time and shakes head if you dont.
     
  12. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    Sometimes like a rageing monkey is how my partner attacks, and yes usually its a same time strike and break grip and sometimes its a strike then break grip.
     
  13. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    That is a serious gap then IMO, since you are asking for critiques. If you are practicing self defense against physical assault- punches should be practiced as part of that. In addition to practicing it in sparring.

    And I am also curious as to what was asked by others here. If it is taught as self defense, are things like de-escalation taught?
     
  14. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    :D
    Ah yes, the way of the peaceful warrior is taught.
     
  15. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    And that's why some people won't take you or what you do seriously.

    What is the logic behind the differences and when to apply them?
     
  16. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Sounds like standard fare from what I've seen of most JJ schools.

    The "self-defence" curriculum is a set feed-and-respond drill to escape headlocks, or get someone with a wooden tanto in an armlock and throw from a stepping-lunge belly stab or ice pick "psycho" attack.
     
  17. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    What does it cover and how?
     
  18. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I think the smiley tells you all you need to know.
     
  19. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    And people wonder why I'm such a snob when it comes to Jujutsu....
     
  20. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    The logic is that you cant always get a technique off in a prearranged order espesially if he switches holds lols ya know like from lapell grab to head control. The monkey thing comes from the fact that my partner puffs his cheeks out when hes hostile lols just sayin.
     

Share This Page