Better, improved footwork; becoming for... "floaty"

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Latikos, Aug 27, 2017.

  1. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    Admittedly, I'm never sure where to put my stupid questions - here or into the general discussions, so I just hope, I'm at the right place here.

    I thought of a way to word my question in a way, people might understand, and might have found a way.
    I'm sure everyone here knows the quote: "Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee", right?

    I'm having a bit of a problem with the butterfly-part.
    I'm moving less butterfly-ie, and more like... well, a knight heavy armor :oops:

    In other words I'm lacking a proper footwork, that doesn't make me look like a three-legged elephant, so to speak, but have it a bit more... floaty.


    Obviously I asked my teachers already.
    One of the answers was: "It will come with time".
    Well, seems to have a bit of truth to it, but I would also like to work more active on it to get better.

    My Kickboxing instructor has some troubles to give me better help.
    I think, it's because it came naturally to him, when he started with TKD and as a youth, and got better by itself when he competed.
    So I doubt he totally grasp, when people are having problems with it; or more precisely has some trouble to fathom and work on it it on an intellectual level alone.
    Don't get me wrong: He's a nice and decent guy, and mostly can come up with good advice; but here we're both having trouble.

    Maybe, and I hope it is, it's a case where you just need the same explanation in another wording/ description/ way of showing it.

    Wouldn't be the first time, that that sort of thing helped me, get the click to not only understand something be able to do it or at the very least work in to get better.


    And, yes, unfortunately I am aware, that I am full of daft questions lately ;)
     
  2. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    Idea for a footwork drill:
    This works better if your mat/floor has lines on it. Maybe the seams of the mat, maybe the edges where the pieces of mat come together, maybe tape, whatever. If there are no lines, that's okay.

    Get in your stance. Move left and punch. Move left and punch. Follow the line on the mat if you have a line, and keep going. When you reach the end of the mat/floor, move right and punch. Move right and punch. When you reach the edge -- you get the idea.

    When you're ready for more, step forward and punch. Follow the line on the floor if there is a line, and repeat to the end of the mat. Then do it all backwards: step backwards and punch.

    When you're ready for more, go in random directions: left, right, forward, backward.

    These are all 90-degree movements. No diagonals. No curves. Just the "north, east, south, and west" directions.

    The "trick" of this drill is to always step with the correct foot first. When you're going to the left, your left foot has to move first. When you're going to the right, your right foot has to move first. When you're going forward, the front foot has to move first. Backwards is the back foot.

    I promise that after a couple minutes you're going to step with the wrong foot -- you're going to cross your feet. Be aware of when that happens, and try again.

    Over time, little by little, as the correct foot burns into your muscle memory, you'll get faster. You'll slide quickly to the left, you'll slide quickly to the right, etc.
     
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  3. Madao13

    Madao13 Valued Member

    You attended the MAP meet so if you are lucky some member from there who worked with you,might
    remember your movement and have some advice.

    AikiMac's drill is very nice though. It's a great simple drill and start.

    IMO, in order to have good footwork you have to understand what constitutes a proper movement, in order to have a clear map to
    reach your goal. Your coach should have the ability to explain this to you and also design footwork drills for you and the whole class.

    It's essential when we move not to break our stance. Stance is everything and by it, I don't mean a specific hand position, but always keeping a
    proper gap between the feet, not crossing them when moving laterally like aikiMac said, having your weight over the ball of the feet and not the heel, keeping proper weight distribution according to your system teachings and not being squared in front of your opponent, so you can be always in position to defend and attack.

    Take a look at Simon in this video.
    He may not have the same stance or weight distribution your coach advocates, but he never strays away from them and that's the whole idea.
    Always being well balanced and in stance, to defend and attack according to your system.

    So we have to be mindful of stuff like that when we move. Do some rounds on the heavy bag and when you shadow box where you focus on getting those things right.
    Move around the heavy bag, change directions, pivot. Work on them when you are doing partner drills. When you take defensive angles or offensive angles.
    If you get these things right then you will become more floaty as you said. You maybe lack on one of those areas I mentioned.

    Pay attention in your next class if you are doing wrong one of those things and ask your coach for advise.
     
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  4. Madao13

    Madao13 Valued Member

    Also take a look here.
    He is one of the most technical nak muays ever and now a coach that's heavy on technique.
    It's basically the drill aikiMac mentioned. He watches and fine tunes the kids. Now that's a teacher!
    There are many coaches but few teachers.

    In this video he's using the bag to work his footwork.
    Moves and hits at the same time, doesn't cross his feet and talks about the importance of not leaning too much.
    Leaning and getting your head past your knee is a common mistake that jeopardizes your balance.
    Losing your balance makes you slow and has the negative effects you described Latikos.
    These are things that are universal no matter the martial art.
     
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  5. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    If the root cause is not engaging the calf muscles enough or having weak calf muscles, try skipping, there's a reason boxers do it so much.
     
  6. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Staying on your toes is pretty essential. If your heels are touching the ground then you're failing before you even start.

    When you move it's a very slight knee movement. Lots of people tend to bend too much to then move out of the way.

    Watch high level (lighter weight) boxers and TKD players. Try and emulate them.
     
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  7. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Shadow box a lot with just footwork/movement and try to find a weight distribution and depth in your structure that feels natural.

    There are loads of different schools of thought on stance and mostly these ideas of ideal stance are born from the necessity of the sporting context and the method of attack. For example a fully bladed stance in point fighting is ideal for that environment but not considered ideal for boxing as it inhibits the delivery of the cross/right straight (if orthodox). I'd not get too bogged down in all of that. Understand your context and go with what feels the most natural whilst affording you the most strategic benefit and then just move a lot.

    I've recently had a huge breakthrough in my own training relating to how I move (stance and it's effect of footwork) and it's changed my entire game for the better. I found I needed to blade off a little more, sink a tiny bit more, distribute about 50/50 on each leg, stay less raised on my rear heal and more on the ball of my foot on the lead leg. You might find something else works for you. Play around and stay within some sensible guiding principles and you'll find what works for you and what suits the type of fighter you are.
     
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  8. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Express yourself.

    Step outside of your own expectations, that of your teachers and certainly that of us lot.

    Hannibal's instructor recently challenged some of us to post a footwork video where we truly expressed ourselves.

    No right or wrong, no rules and it didn't matter if it was terrible.

    Those who posted a video were told they instantly improved the moment they posted a video.

    I'm not suggesting that is what you need to do, but why not shoot your own video.

    Do it without expectation and don't judge yourself.
     
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  9. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    In Tuesday's class my son couldn't do a series of moves and it was because he'd already defeated himself mentally.

    I stopped the drill, told him to shut his eyes and pictures someone else doing the drill. It could have been me, his training partner, or Bruce Lee, it didn't matter.

    Once he had the image I told him to mentally step into and become that person.

    He opened his eyes and did the drill.

    Little tricks make all the difference and it's about removing the fear of failure.
     
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  10. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    And i am another person who is going to use this advice. :D
     
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  11. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    So... as everyone probably has noticed, I took my time before answering.
    Not due to being disrespectful or lazy, more the contrary.

    I took the time to read the answers several times, thought a bit about them (which won't mean, that I won't forget half of what I had in mind now ;) ) and watch the videos in a moment, where I was in mood and had a bit of the ability to concentrate left (I'm having minor problems lately; so when I seem confused, I'm sorry).

    This is probably being a longer post, since I find it unnecessary to make a new post for every single answer.
    And since I have no idea how to start in a useful manner otherwise, I will go through the answers, one by one.

    @aikiMac: Thank you for the drill idea.
    If I manage to go earlier tomorrow, I will try them out before the kids-class.
    If I fall over and anyone sees that, their death is up to you.


    @Madao13: First: Thanks for making me feel even worse, by showing a video where half-toddlers are probably doing better then I do :p
    Made me realize something though, on which I could put additional attention: Due to Judo- and JJ-randori I'm used to dragging my feet when moving, so I don't get swept away, so to speak ;)

    I won't take or accept that as an apology, why I need to work on my footwork when sparring in Kickboxing or Karate, since I am aware that I shouldn't be dragging them there.
    But maybe I do fall back at the other pattern at times, without noticing it.
    I have seriously no idea; I kind of doubt it, actually, but I will pay attention to it anyway.

    I like the video from Simon (Kudos to you too!).
    You put into words, what we do, but using more explanation and theory into it - so that's right up my alley, and had helped me already.
    I won't be miraculously better due to it, but it made realize some things, I'm doing instinctively during warm-up, but imagine I stop doing, when it would be important.
    Also, I will take crepe tape with me sometime this week (maybe tomorrow as well) and try and play bit with that.
    (Big plus: With any luck, that might get the kids interested, why it's there either, and I could work with that in the future!)

    Regarding the heavy bag (might be able to try that out on Wednesday):
    The part where he does that hopping back and forth for example is something I can do; we do that often during the warm-up and I include it regularly in the warm-up with the kids as well.
    But once I am to do that on the heavy bag I apparently suck, since that's the moment where my coach likes to remind me to move more.
    And there comes our problem into all this: When I ask him for help in detail what he means, he has some trouble explaining that.
    He calls it "dance", but I doubt that translation works 1:1; dictionary calls it "skip", but I only know that when used for "jumping" or not attending something as in "skip class", so I'm at a loss of explaining better what I mean, right now.

    When I do what Simon did in the video (hopping and punching) I... well, I guess I'm not doing it after all ;) or the coach means something else, because I think, I'm doing that.
    He didn't use these words, but apparently I'm moving with the grace of a tank.

    I don't remember which one, but I'm absolutely sure one of my teachers mentioned not to lean to far forward at some point as well, so this seems to be something I should also be on the lookout for.

    Either way, I will try to "play" with the bag on Wednesday and keep your third video in mind for that.


    @Dead_pool: This might be a dumb question, but: How do I realize how much of the problem the calf's might be? :oops:
    As for the skipping: Waiting for the video, so I might stop ending up killing myself :p
    But I guess I could try that tomorrow as well, as long as no one is near the dojo, but me :rolleyes:


    @Pretty In Pink: I'm pretty sure my left -the back- foot is on it's toes at least most of the time.
    Not sure about the front foot :here is thinking smiley missing:
    Will pay more attention to that.


    @Knee Rider: I'm afraid I'm not much of a fighter (hopefully: yet), because I feel rather dumb most of the time.
    like during shadow boxing :rolleyes:
    Will keep that in mind though, when I start "playing" a bit with the advises given!


    @Simon: I do get the idea of the video (I think anyway), but I have to admit (and feel very, very dumb for it!) that I don't think I understand what you mean with "Express yourself"?

    Since I know I move like an overweight elephant my expectations to myself probably aren't the biggest.

    I need to get more light on feet; my main teacher told me, lots of it will come, if I were finally to stop thinking about it too much, but so far that doesn't seem to work too well :(
    I mean, sure he tells me I get better and I know him well enough that that must be true, because he wouldn't lie to me to make me feel better; so technique-wise in JJ I apparently did improve rather well; but I still feel like moving on very bad, rusty and damaged rails - and wrong at that!
    I don't expect to able to move like an elf ;) , but I need to become more light on my feet/ floaty/ whatever it's called.


    With "mentally defeated" you mean something telling himself "I won't manage that?"

    If so, yeah, know that very well.
    I try hard on not letting that happen anymore but I was (maybe still am, who knows) rather prone to that.
    The first time I realized that myself was doing English-classes back in school and it really didn't work out. I took the basics I knew years later and started on my own again...

    Anyway, if that's what you mean: The moment I notice I might end up in that thought, I try to get rid of it and keep trying harder.
    Now, that I think of it, that might be some sort of start, but I also might end up getting more tense :still a missing thinking smiley:

    I like the idea, you did with your son.

    Also, I'm afraid with the "fear of failure" you might have hit it just right :oops:
    I hate making mistakes in front of other and therefore making a fool out of myself.
    Since I have trouble with people and recognizing some things for what they are, it also makes me feel horrible and at times aggressive when people are laughing about me, because I usually only know it, when... well, it's not meant in nice and friendly way, because something was just funny.

    So I'm afraid I still haven't beaten that trait in a way, that I am relaxed enough when it comes to things I'm not good at.



    I'm sure I missed something and I'm sure it will come jumping at me either right after I clicked "post reply" or in a few minutes, when I'm feeding and petting my Chinchillas.
    I feel like I know it.
    But even after thinking about it right now for a few minutes I don't remember and since the text is too long already in the first place... I'll just leave it that for the moment being.

    Thanks again for all the answers and advises so far!
     
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  12. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Relaxation is important.

    Try to stay calm and reduce tension in your body. Put your hands up, set your stance and move. Small steps. Move your head. Go in, out, side, break away and circle. Try to stay chilled and loose. Adjust your stance as much as you need. Feel your weight centred/keep your balance. Keep your feet beneath you. Do it a lot/regularly.

    How much pad work and sparring do you do in class?
     
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  13. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    Relaxing is something that comes very difficult to me.
    I usually feel tensed all the time; starting with people being around and ending with not wanting to look a fool.

    I often hear to relax more, which makes it even more difficult; it's a bit like saying "Don't think about that pink elephant driving roller skates in your bathtub".

    But I am aware and agree about its importance; it's just difficult to train and learn that. Even though I got better at it.


    Due to my own "fault" not as much as I could.
    Since my "main-art" is JJ I can usually only attend Karate and Kickboxing once per week, because the other session on a Tuesday - the same time my first club trains.
    Back then when I joined the second club I promised my teacher that my training with him won't suffer due to the other club - a promise I want to keep for a lot of reasons; one of them being that I like his training.
    Long story short: I can only make the Tuesday class if my main teacher doesn't make it due to work.

    In JJ we do some randori and sparr at times, but at the moment not as often as I'd like.
    I consider asking my main teacher about it again though.
    Last time I asked him, he said he would like to it but most people in class wouldn't; but the class has changed back then.
    Plus: When he still had his own school, his people had to do randori - I want that again :D

    So it's mostly once a week; and padwork is something I can hardly do alone; let alone sparring.
    I considered asking one of the other students to spent some time on it, but she's only just a beginner, so she lacks technique and theoretical knowledge, why I'm afraid it would do more harm the use.
    We still though about meeting to train for some fun anyway. Like doing the stuff we know and work from there.

    Also with the additional competitors training there will be more sparring and pad work of course.
     
  14. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    If your not sure if your calfs are a problems, they probably are, you can skip at home, skipping ropes are cheap, no one has to see!
     
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  15. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    I only ask because sparring and padwork can both be a huge help informing you movement as you have to develop footwork that allows you to move in a way that gets you in position to land shots, create angles, recieve/absorb shots, avoid shots and manage distance. You also have to be able to launch your own strikes in a mechanically effective manner. Both sparring and padwork can really aid this plus it is a change for you to manage your breathing and muscle tension (relaxation).

    On relaxation: if your social anxiety has you in a state of tension then try to make it a mindfulness exercise on your physical tension rather than emotional state.

    Train it at home when you are alone so you don't need to feel self conscious and then take those habits to the gym.

    Surprised that there is not daily sparring and pad holding in your kickboxing class though!
     
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  16. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    Quick update:

    I was as lazy today as laziness goes.
    I only got up not even two hours before I had to go to training (I'm sleeping bad lately and sometimes I get the comeuppance for that) and therefore didn't make it earlier.

    I might get another chance tomorrow, otherwise I aim for Wednesday after the regular training.


    What I did notice today: When we were evading I paid more attention to my feet and noticed some crossing of them.
    I usually stand with my left leg back, so when evading to the left I at times used my front foot first.
    So I at least found one of the above mentioned problems.



    I do have a rope.
    I need to be careful using it inside though, as to not disturb the neighbors, when it scratches over the floor.

    I'd still like to know what the signs are, if your calfs are the problem.
    I'm not saying they're not, in the contrary chances are they are, but how to notice that?


    @Knee Rider: I actually like working on pads, that's way I consider to ask someone from class, who is usually always glad to do some extra training.
    Just the problem, that we're both rather new with Kickboxing and that movement and are having similar problems; she quite lighter on her feet though!
    I could actually see her competing in KB, given some time.

    As for my social anxiety: It's still a problem for sure; there are days when I actually feel good and later on or the next notice how extremely tired and exhausted I am - but that is sort of good, because it also marks that I am getting more relaxed during the stress-situations.
    It's tons of work but it's also kind of cool to notice the changes for the better.

    My point being: I think I managed to be more relaxed sometimes.
    But I think I also tense up again, when it comes to certain things and when I switch back into "thinking-mode".

    When alone I still feel like an idiot when shadow-boxing :oops:
    But I guess I will get used to that at some point.
    I hope.

    As for sparring and pad-holding: Again one of the bigger problems is, that can I can usually make it only to one KB-class/ week.
    I'm sure they do pad-work and sparring in the other session as well, because the trainer starts sparring very soon (which I know is often criticized, and do get why. I'd actually like some more controlled and restricted sparring at times, to get used to some stuff); he makes sure, that the new people are partnered with others, who take care of them though.

    I wish we would do that more during JJ as well though.
    I'm of course aware that it has another focus but punching and kicking correctly is also something, every art does profit from.
    And it's not, that my teachers couldn't do it properly; they do.
     
  17. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    If your heel touches the floor, and you don't want it too, its probably that your not used to engaging the calfs.

    Since i've started skipping, my running/sprinting has got loads better too.
     
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  18. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    I certainly need to get better at running (as in "not dying after a minute") so that would have use as well.


    When you people say to only stay your on your toes or the ball of your foot, is the meant literally?
    That the heel of both feet doesn't touch the ground at all?
    or is more a weight distribution thing, that most weight is on the toes?
     
  19. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I'm not the best person to ask for striking, also it depends on what art you training it for,
     
  20. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    It varies but generally speaking you want the rear heel to be carrying less weight than the balls. Some people only have their front and rear heel barely touching the floor, others have their rear heel fully raised. Just experiment with what feels comfortable, balanced and mobile for you.
     

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