best silat videos in the world

Discussion in 'Silat' started by elbowblast, Jun 21, 2003.

  1. wt77

    wt77 New Member

    joseph simonet

    what do you thing about joseph simonet serak videos paladin ones??
    sanders videos are great
    and the late hermand swanda videos too, i don┬┤t see any of his sister videos yet!!!
    richard de bordes harimau videos are good too
     
  2. Ular Sawa

    Ular Sawa Valued Member

    My Favorites

    My favorite would be the Cimande series by William Sanders especially
    the newer stuff. :D

    I've got a couple by Eddie Jaffri which are better if you've already
    got a background.

    The most unique Silat video in my library is a video someone shot of a seminar by Richard DeBordes. I would hate to have been the guy Guru
    DeBordes demonstrated his techniques on. He was not gentle.

    I also like the Terlinden videos and one I have by Willem De Thouars. Unfortunately, I have not seen any Suwanda or Torres.
     
  3. Herk

    Herk New Member

    Bringing back an old thread! Hey guys, do any of these videos go over and explain in detail the bone conditioning of the forearms and shins, ala the Cimande conditioning? I am really interested in how they do this.

    Also, if the bone/limb conditioning actually has a name, I'd like to know it. Thanks!

    Ular Sawa, help me out here. As a side note, I've been trying to get in contact with Guru Wilson from the VA school, and so far no response at all. I'm sure he busy, but wanted to check with you to see if he is even still teaching Cimande. Also, any of the cimande.com or cimande.net videos go over this stuff?

    Thanks again.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2004
  4. pesilat

    pesilat Active Member

    I don't know about vids that cover it - in my personal opinion, that'd be a hard thing to do since there would be a lot of danger in people trying to condition without a guide to keep them from doing it incorrectly (which could cause some really bad problems.

    I've never heard a specific name for the conditioning - except "pure, unadulterated hell" which was my personal tag for it ;)

    As far as how it's done, I can only speak for how my instructor did it and, by extension, how I do it and how I'd assume my instructor's instructor (Pak Herman Suwanda) did it. The first 5 jurus (at least as Mande Muda teaches them) are conditioning jurus. And they're progressive. So #1, when first learned, does very light conditioning because until the proper body mechanics are learned, it's difficult to get much juice on it. #2 is slightly more. #3 more still. #4 & #5 are brutal conditioners because it's hard to be nice with them even if you wanted to do so.

    What we actually do (i.e.: me and my instructor) is teach #3 first. #3 gives both good conditioning and a lot of control for placement of hits both on the giving and receiving arms. So we teach it first and "walk lines" (with the Cimande footwork) making sure to give good coverage both in where we're hitting our partner's arm and what part of our arm we're hitting with. The idea is to get even conditioning along the length of the forearm bone. Common mistakes include turning your opponent's arm too far and actually hitting meat instead of bone, glancing off instead of hitting through (this cheats both people), too much tension in the arm of either the giver or receiver (it's a body's natural reaction to that type of pain - sheath the bone in muscle/tissue to protect the bone and lessen the pain - but it leads to lessened conditioning and really bad tissue bruising).

    After a good beating, then the real hell - er, I mean, fun - begins. We break out the balur (a liniment similar in concept to Chinese Dit Da Jao but with different ingredients - at least according to people I know who are familiar with both types of recipes, personally, I don't know much about the production of either except that there are many recipes and types of Jao). We massage the balur into the arms. The massage is pretty specific - and I'm here to tell you, it's no namby-pamby feel good massage, it hurts. But it does it's job well. It breaks up the bruises, gets the blood circulating through the forearms properly again, and helps things heal faster from the beating (and the healing is really where the conditioning takes place).

    I've not done the Cimande shin conditioning. The only shin conditioning I'm at all familiar with is Muay Thai - and I'm only familiar with that through hearsay. All the shin conditioning I've done has come through "energetic" sapus and while sparring - especially sparring some Muay Thai guys.

    Don't know if that helps or not but that's a synopsis of how we do it.

    I'd love to hear from other Cimande players about this :)

    Mike
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2004
  5. Herk

    Herk New Member

    Thanks Mike, that helps a lot. I've seen and felt some of the forearm conditioning, but I do know that there is an actual process, and I'm trying to find a reference for it. I'm wondering if some of the tapes I've seen that go over the jurus will be a decent enough reference. I'd really like to find a silat/cimande school, but if that doesn't work, a book or video is my next best step.

    Oh, and I've felt what a conditioned forarm feels like, so I WANT SOME!!!!!!

    Ditto with the shins, but that was in Muay Thai training. The Cimande shin conditioning seems more targeted and actually not as detrimental in the long run. I'm starting to get old and I don't want to lose any movement quicker than is already happening.

    Thanks again,
    Raul

    PS. Watching Guro Ken Pennel on the Sayoc Kerambit video was what really got me interested in Silat. He is supposed to be coming out to my martial arts school again in Oct for a seminar. I unfortunately missed his first one.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2004
  6. pesilat

    pesilat Active Member

    Cool. His last name is actually "Pannell" - but it gets messed up a lot :)

    Yeah, Guru Ken's his forearms are the hardest arms that I've personally ever felt except for Pak Herman Suwanda and Uncle Bill de Thouars (but Uncle Bill seems to be hard all over and I think he had that conditioning before he got to his Cimande training).

    Where are you located?

    Yeah, as I understand it, the Cimande shin conditioning is less detrimental than MT conditioning can be. But I haven't really seen either - just heard a little about them - so I can't personally say. Guru Ken is familiar with the Cimande shin conditioning and did it when he was in Indonesia training with Pak Herman. In the standard Sikal curriculum the Cimande jurus are brought out and the basic walking and the forearm conditioning is optional now (when I was going through it, he never mentioned that we had an option :) - but our group in those days was small and crazy anyway, we'd have all opted to do it regardless). As far as I know, there's only one guy that Guru Ken has done the shin conditioning with and he specifically asked for it all and is the only full guru that Guru Ken has made in Cimande. The other 5 gurus under Guru Ken are gurus in Sikal so we have some elements of Cimande - i.e.: the forearm conditioning, jurus 1 - 20, seated and walking - but we don't have the full Cimande curriculum that Guru Ken teaches which includes the shin conditioning, all the jurus (I believe there are 36), the Sabitan (a knife system that Pak Uyuh Suwanda developed based on Cimande and built around a specific blade he designed), the langkahs, etc.

    Mike
     
  7. Herk

    Herk New Member

    Whoops, sorry about that. I corrected someone about that last week and then I go and spell his name incorrectly. I'll leave it on the original post as a referenece to my stupidity!

    I'm in Northern VA, and train Sayoc at the Trident Academy in Woodbridge, VA with Guro Todd Gilbert. He trains a little silat on the side, and trains under Guru Pannell, not to mention there is some silat in Sayoc. BUT, I want to learn it on a more exclusive basis. Meaning I want to study a silat exclusive curriculm for a while. It seems very very interesting.

    Anyway, my search continues, and hopefully Guru Pannell will allow Guro Todd to teach in a more formal manner in the future.

    Raul
     
  8. pesilat

    pesilat Active Member

    LOL. Not a problem. I've done the same thing (not with Guru Ken's name, of course, but with other people's names).

    Anyway - I've heard good stuff about your group there at Trident. At some point, I'll make it down your way, I'm sure :)

    Mike
     
  9. Wali

    Wali Valued Member

    The best ones I have seen are '├Źntroduction to Pencak Silat' by Steve Benitez. It's an introduction video, which talks about the history, and all the different aspects of silat (Groundwork, Upright, Kembangan, weapons, etc...)

    I think it's only available in the UK at the moment, and that more professional DVD sets have been made, and are in the pre-production stage.

    I heard the Herman Suwanda ones are good also, but haven't seen them.

    Cheers
    Wali
     
  10. bernie

    bernie New Member

    Herman Suwanda videos

    aloha !

    Those interested in getting any of Pak Herman's tapes in wither VHS format , any country or DVD's can email me directly for information, prices, etc.
    mahalo
     

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