Best MA for self defence

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by Jab Cross Hook, Sep 12, 2017.

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  1. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    One thing about the abduction video:

    The ominous sound effects were a bit over the top and unnecessary. That made it feel more like a sales pitch and less like an academic exercise.
  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Sometimes what you are seeing tells just as much about your experience too.

    Like you said, everyone is happy - especially all those who actually need lives to depend on the training
  3. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    question on that abduction thing, did you do one or do you do one if a weapon is involved?

    Somewhat agreed about the choice of music for that, but then i dont think there would have been a lot to go with it audio wise. (it wouldnt exactly be good to use "take on me" or "you say run" for that)
  4. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    Sorting out background sound for videos is difficult.

    Generally I stick with royalty free music or music I've been given direct permission to use. I didn't want to go too upbeat with the music for this as it is a serious and emotive subject. If memory serves these were garageband themes.
  5. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    We often cover the use of weapons as coercion tools in other scenarios so I chose not to use them here as my decision was that their use would not have added any extra benefit or information to the dynamics under analysis.
  6. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Yeah, I can see that. I think I'd just go for the location sound, or none at all.

    It's a scary enough subject without the horror theme!

    I do like the way you chose uplifting music for your Sim day videos though, rather than the usual intense metal or dubstep kind of thing.
  7. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    As I wrote in the blog post, we had sound issues on the day while running that aspect of training. My judgement call was to cover the artificial sound with background music.

    I am looking forward to the next event (which will not include vehicles) and will shortly be in a position to set out my schedule for 2018 as I have had to factor in losing a few months to surgery.
  8. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    My misses is pregnant and I have nieces and nephews....
    Which somehow means what?

    You don't think that clip is strange ,off and creepy and you really believe JT has been in enough ,if any, violent encounters or fights to be so authoritive?
    How does he know how to simulate an abduction other than academically and through research, in which case what's the point. It's fantasy. It's false. Fake.
  9. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Matt, opinion is one thing, libel is another.

    Please choose your wording carefully.
  10. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    It seems pretty accruate from what i have seen and done. Add in the fighting for your life with unrestricted hits. If you have ever been a child you should know the effectiness and usefulness of jamming your leg into a wall or door frame.

    If you know how to restrain somone, you could simulate a abductor, probably better than a opportunistic one. Resistance doesnt change much, what the abductor uses/does would change pending intent, you cant do everything at once. (technique wise, uses)

    For evidence he has, would be his to give.
  11. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    For clarity, which bit is libel?
  12. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Agreed, But again, Matt is hardly the first person to post in such a manner. Including some of the experts/ instructors on here.
    Then debate the issue, don't appeal to authority.

    If you go back and read what I said, I already agreed that Matt's approach was not the best in my original post on this. Although again, he is hardly the first or only person to post in that manner. I also made a point to say I wasn't arguing all of Simon's post-just the one part of it. Because I agreed with what he said otherwise. I agree that simulation is not the same as fantasy and that was an unnecessarily derogatory and inaccurate term.

    What I spoke about was the appeal to John's expertise as a means of saying Matt had no right to question the issue. Simon later said questioning was ok, but IMO the original post did not come across that way. I think extremely highly of Simon, but that is how that post came across to me. A foremost authority in the UK (or anywhere else) should easily be able to answer doubts about classes they teach. Which, BTW, John did very well IMO. He didn't say "I am an authority, I am respected" as an answer. He discussed the issue. Which shows his knowledge far better.

    MAP members of all levels of experience post on here questioning schools and instructors all the time. And, I might add, often in a rather negative way, just as negative as how Matt brought up his concern. Instructor members, in principle, should not be exempt from critique any more than anyone else.

    Some things are valid to mention expertise on. You have no experience in a style, yet make proclamations about what the style is? Yes, the idiocy of that is fair game to be called out. But it can also be over-used. There is a balance about the appropriate time to bring this up.

    But what I would hate to see is MAP become a place where only instructors get to have valid opinions on issues. Yes, recognize the expertise. But that doesn't mean instructors are the only right people all the time. The skill was not in debate. The idea of a training on child abduction was looked upon negatively. You don't need to be an instructor to have a valid opinion on that. I don't want MAP to become a place where the rank and file student member doesn't feel like they can discuss their opinion without always being told "well, they are an instructor." Sometimes that answer is valid, but not always. IMO, in this case, it really isn't a relevant point to the issue of this type of class being taught.

    Just to understand where I am coming from, overall in various threads, I agree far more often with Simon and John on issues of self defense than what Matt says. I can honestly say that they are two of the people I absolutely respect the most. Also two people whom I consistently enjoy their postings. If I ever traveled over there, the #1 thing I would love to do would be to do one of those SIM training sessions! I will say that the idea of classes being advertised about protection against abduction still doesn't sit entirely right with me. I need to think on it more to understand why I feel this way before I can comment on that.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017
    narcsarge, Matt F and David Harrison like this.
  13. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    That was my concern also, but as John explained, it was not the case. It was an experiment.

    I think most people are uneasy at the usual child SD rubbish, where children and parents are sold the false hope that a child could strike and wrist-lock their way out of being abducted by a stranger. You know, all the usual SD escapes stuff that adults are taught too, usually as a compliant afterthought to a system.

    Awareness and precaution will always be the safest and surest methods of SD, and that is what should be concentrated on for children and their guardians.
    axelb and aaradia like this.
  14. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Sparring is fake by that measure

    Again you have zero cogency to your argument and it comes across as petulant for the sake of it, the same way it always does when you just resort to the "i train for me..blah, blah" diatribe you always trot out when you talk about SD. Doubly ironic as you base your entire prep for it of what someone else is telling you

    We wont agree, and thats fine - but again equal right isn't equal weight
  15. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    You don't need to go out in a van in the street , simulate walking about, have people jump out etc .
    You could do a restrained/ escape in a gym at way more realistic intensitys than that clip and protect a kid of any age from the dark element of abduction by just making it a competitive drill that enhances their fundamentals with an explanation of its possible use explained at that kids level, if that was the aim.
    You'd just have to make it a competitive drill. With no pre determined winner or loser. An escape drill as a learning process.
  16. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    They were teenagers, not toddlers.
  17. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    Fighting isn't fake.
    We won't agree because I see right through you.
    Be secure. Be happy.
    Don't worry what I'm doing.
  18. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    When you stop giving out bad advice i will

    And see though me? Please.....
  19. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    Haha please indeed.
    Please actually show me.....something that lives up to the hype.
  20. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    Well, i prefer and learn better doing things as close to reality as possible. That doesnt just apply to self defence drills either, i in general would prefer to practice techniques on somone. Its not a imaginary opponent, i struggle with the imaginary opponent bit, i can then percive how they respond to the attack/block etc and how much force there is and any follow up action. (still not over those corrections on my low block not stopping at my knee)

    Gym training has its flaws as well, you would be hard pressed to severely damage your head from a fall on a well padded gym or have a rock or something damage your back. There would also be no drive, (which is not a drill like this) to jam your leg against a wall, as your oppenent wont be trying to take you somewhere or through a doorway, they would just grapple and hold you. Competitiveness is not always bad.

    Learning styles as well, people respond diffrently to diffrent teaching methods.
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