Best knife defence?

Discussion in 'Weapons' started by idols11, Jun 8, 2015.

  1. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I was about to say, "when your a jet your a jet....."
     
  2. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    It'll still be crazy repetitive sewing machine style stabs, just downwards.
     
  3. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Where are you getting that data?

    For instance, here: http://www.forensicmed.co.uk/wounds/sharp-force-trauma/ it says that researchers have all found that around 45% of homicides by stabbing involve only one wound.

    Also:

    Ormstad et al (1986) also found that multiple wound cases were more likely to involve a close relationship between victim and perpetrator, and involved alleged motives that were of an emotionally charged or sexual nature, compared to the alleged motives of single wound assaults (more likely to involve quarrels, particularly where alcohol had been ingested).

    Read more: http://www.forensicmed.co.uk/wounds/sharp-force-trauma/
     
  4. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    So 55% involve more then one wound.......

    Training wise, assuming they will always withdraw and reap stab is the safest assumption.

    Evidence from stats,a small amount of exposure via nightclub and healthcare work and regularly talking to my pathologist partner, all of which have bias (path only see the dead ones etc)
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2015
  5. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    As well as speaking to police and EMTs:

    I have seen and been in knife fights (defense). In all of these, no one came or used a high downward thrust

    And to reiterate:
    But that said, this isn't to state "never" and there is environment, or global differences
     
  6. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I should hope not! :eek:

    So you're saying that no-one in the U.S. would ever stab downwards?
     
  7. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Oh, definitely you should never presume such a thing in training.
     
  8. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Not what I asked.

    Care to answer the actual question?
     
  9. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    What question?



    I guess you did not fully understood my sentence in bold (I did not state "never")

    Allow me to further explain;

    Knife Fights, as what I term as altercations from "common folk". (Although common folk may be a outlandish term in this structure). In other words, not professionally trained knife wielders.

    From my observations and few involvement, no one wanted to do the downward thrust. I think this is from a instinctual desire of the attacker, not to expose the body.

    My other research via interviews, attackers wanted to use the weapon with more stealth, as perhaps they thought that the overhead position shown their weapon prematurely.
     
  10. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Now you are getting context-specific. In your research, did you discover who was most likely to attack someone with a knife? Was that different depending on who the subject we're talking about is?
     
  11. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    1) The vast "criminal element" (13+) have easy access to firearms. Among those who desire to harm another, if they could not get a firearm quickly,, would use a knife to attack someone. This was termed as gut, bleed, slice, open (cause wound), shiv, shanked, etc. A lot of knife attacks (per my findings) were done by a friend or relative, per domestic and those not of were not downward thrust

    2) As for your second question, I don't quite understand
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2015
  12. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    The underhand shanking is the most common attack in North America these days. The overhand "chop and drag" is the second most common, from what I've heard.
     
  13. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Pretty much....
     
  14. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    And as a rule, those who do weapon arts and know more advanced knife techniques don't go about harming other people: they're too busy training. The Codex Wallerstein mentions stuff like the "French" and "Italian" (or whatever, I'm not looking it up now) thrusts. One's the hooking thrust from the left, palm up I think. And so on. You don't see too much like that in actual knife attacks. Bring back duelling, and things would change, I suppose. Spanish navaja duels in the streets of Calgary. Hannibal would never be bored.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2015
  15. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKLoRvS4XPQ"]Daggers of codex Goliath - YouTube[/ame]

    The stances and footwork are classical Southern Shoalin. The techniques could be taken straight from a hung gar lesson.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2015
  16. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    The underhand is most, the second is the side to side slash...no chop and drag...from my research with US police/emt

    Nice...but I guess this is one " reason why" the downward thrust is not commonly used in the US
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2015
  17. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I LIVE FOR THIS!!!!!!
     
  18. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    Interesting. I would never have guessed that. You do see it in movies, so that might explain its prevalence.
     
  19. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    Nothing new under the sun. Compare old Chinese long sword stances with those in Joachim Meyer's treatise of 1570. :)
     
  20. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Movies....that's why Superman Flies! :evil: :p

    Think about it, its for drama

    Prevalence...I know a lot of traditional martial arts practice defending it, but I think its more of a past era method than a current modern era



    Note: To reiterate "my key words/points":

    A lot of knife attacks (per my findings).....

    From my observations and few involvement....

    As well as speaking to police and EMTs: US

    Not including professionally trained knife wielders

    ... isn't to state "never" and there is environment, or global differences
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2015

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