Best knife defence?

Discussion in 'Weapons' started by idols11, Jun 8, 2015.

  1. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Probably a previously banned member.
     
  2. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    One way or another he's a member of some sort....
     
  3. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Just a friendly reminder about personal attacks folks :)

    Mitch
     
  4. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Yeah Simon behave.

    :evil:


    No worries Mitch I will keep any members to myself.
     
  5. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    The Mod team were already discussing Simon's post, nobody here is above the rules. :)

    Mitch
     
  6. fortunado

    fortunado Valued Member

    If it were me, I'd come at you with two knives, one in each hand. The knife in my left hand would be backwards so if you did have a knife yourself and tried to stick me with it and I flinched and freaked out, I could still sick you inside your arm with it and hold you by it. I'd use my right hand to get my favorite judo grip on your torso or up your chin into the inside of your jaw through your tongue before flipping onto your back. Then, get the mount on you and proceed to use a judo or brazilian jiu jitsu frontal choke, except this time I'm not using your gi to stop the blood flowing to your brain through your arteries in your neck, i'm actually familiar enough with that part of your anatomy to permanently stop the blood going to your brain, which takes about ten seconds.
     
  7. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

  8. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I want to make it clear I am commenting entirely on the unbelievable nature of what is posted and how it is in all likelihood utterly false

    Indirectly that is calling someone a liar I suppose, but it is based on the post not the personality
     
  9. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    And to further illustrate my point this post is pure fantasy with zero basis in reality or any training at all
     
  10. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    The best way to use knives is to crash to clinch?

    Judo torso grip? Or chin/tongue grip?

    Gi'less front choke?

    Shinanagans fo sho.....


    If it were up to me I'd ran away locking multiple doors behind me, and then call my wing'ed monkeys!
     
  11. bigreddog

    bigreddog Valued Member

    I would suggest some of these proposed moves are based on practicing with the sharpest tool available...which I suspect may be a crayon :)
     
  12. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Dragging things kicking and screaming back on topic, just saw an interesting video showing knife defence after Fiore de Liberi. X block is used, but it's more of a clearing concept with a definite scissoring rather than catching in an X (in CLF the move is actually called golden scissors).
    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxKklcP-jkE"]Fiore's techniques III - Regia Turris - YouTube[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2015
  13. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Notice the footwork and angle differences. You end up sideways to the enemy. I think there is more to it than a clearing concept, the end technique is definitely a hook. Getting from point A to point B is not what the video shows, IMHO.
     
  14. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    Fiore doesn't say whether it's a block or sweep. He says: "This cover is known to be much stronger and I make it so as to be able to obstruct you with various plays. And you cannot overcome such a strong cover, because two arms can easily oppose one arm."

    and later:

    "I play with my arms crossed, and can make all the remedies that were previously shown. And if we were both armoured, you could not make a better cover. No other crowned [Dagger] Remedy Master makes a stronger cover than I, for I can play both to the right and to the left, and I can cross from both underneath and from above."

    He also shows a counter to the x-block being a simple push to the elbow to make the defender turn.

    He has another cross with the dagger held in the crossed hands by grip and tip, also stressing that it's best armoured.

    How Fiore meant that block to be used I have no idea. I'm not an authority on it by any stretch of the imagination. Wearing 15th Century armour would make all of them work much more safely.

    That's one thing that is often forgotten: violence is a social phenomenon, and sometimes the clothes you wear have a large impact. What works ideally against a rondell in full plate doesn't necessarily work against a folder in a t-shirt and jeans.

    Fiore says again with regards to the low x-block that it's better in armour. It has reduced range compared to other covers but a lot of strength. We also don't even know if his arms are actually touching each other, though I suspect they are.
     
  15. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    Just found a nice dagger demo out of the Codex Goliath. Very nice use of the rondell. Note that when the attacker indexes with the unarmed hand, the defender attacks that right away rather than controlling the dagger hand. While fine for professional warriors who trained from a very young age, a modern civilian would have trouble doing that without getting stabbed. To me, that's another example of context. Regardless, I really enjoyed the demo. I've never seen the dagger stuff of that manual performed before:

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKLoRvS4XPQ"]Daggers of codex Goliath - YouTube[/ame]

    Here's some more from the Codex Wallerstein, with some very similar techniques:

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6uOfXSfG1A"]Daggers of codex Wallerstein - YouTube[/ame]
     
  16. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    It's hand fighting 101, do not let them grab you. If you clear the grab, it's much harder for them to launch an attack with the blade hand, and you can use their arm and shoulder to shield you from the knife. Conversely it's much harder to defend the stab if they can manipulate your stance and structure.
     
  17. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I'd bet sweep.

    It seems to me that there is a tendency to interpret fencing manuals as a series of static positions, due to the nature of copying illustrations.
     
  18. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    A lot of the forearm to forearm contacts seem vulnerable to the attacker withdrawing the knife and attacking the 'blocking' arm, would the original context of included forearm armour?

    PS I really like the " codex Goliath " material, is there anything about its origin that's worth knowing about?
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2015
  19. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Goliath_(MS_Germ.Quart.2020)
     
  20. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    I liked the second video more. The application of technique seemed tighter mechancially... But I've just drunk 700ml of Jack so might revise my opinion on Monday (what? its a rest day haha).
     

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