ok. Here's a question for everyone.... what will work? Guns are never going away. Period. Knives are never going away. Period Crime is never going to go away. Period. We are humans and some people do have the nature to be so inclined to disagree with what would some deem the "normal rules of society". In america, we have over 21,000 gun laws. Only ONE has proven to stop gun crime or even come close to lowering it..... arm everyone. I hear and read all this stuff about how OBJECTS increase the possibility of crime. Garbage answer,to be honest. Is prison the answer? Thats just a criminal university. A well "educated" convict can use anything to kill or cripple for life. So that is a no-go answer. Some people never experience crime. Good for them. Does that give them the right to walk in the shoes of those who have to live with it every day? Hell no. Some people live with it every day and not by choice. Do the ones who do live with crime by choice have the right to bring out of their world and into ours? Hell no once again. Regardless,these 2 worlds cross every single minute of every single day of our lives. So what do we do? I have thought on this for over 25 years. I don't have an answer. What I do know for a FACT is that no OBJECT is responsible for anything! And knowing that; why do people insist on arguing that it "makes things easier" BECAUSE the object was there? Cain killed Abel................. with a STONE! should stones been banned then? Regulated? Controlled? Finger printed? DNA tested? Should stones be profiled now? I bet the stone was ****ed off for it too People can blame objects all they want. It does not do one bit of good. I don't care how you slice it up,when it comes down to the bare boned truth, it's in some peoples human nature to be criminals. Regardless of what is at hand. The crime WILL happen. So,I ask you again.... What do we do?
And people are taking away your swords because they hold similar beliefs. Thankfully, we here have not surrendered our rights in such a manner. Additionally, I find my views about all weapons to be perfectly healthy and I believe yours are fundamentally flawed. This is of course nothing more than opinion and merits the same value as your opinion. As far as empathy for fellow human beings, I value others based upon their actual value. I have little or no regard for serial killers, child molesters and "humans" of that kind, if you empathize with such beings that is your flaw. Conversely, I'd place my own life at risk to save certain other humans. Course I'd probably run into a burning building to save my dog too. Granted my dog is more deserving of life than most LA gang members. But the important thing here is you have demonstrated how things as absurd as a sword ban can come to be. Without any real knowledge of me, my character or things of that nature you have decided that I am not suitable to exercise a right to be armed in the defense of myself or my family and would deny such things to me if given the option. And in my opinion, that more than anything you believe about me, says something very negative about you. As others are showing you the same kind of consideration is perhaps justice. It is unfortunate that others will also be disarmed by people who hold views similar to yours.
I gave the break down for guns atleast in my previous post: From the wikipedia article "gun poitics in the uk" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_pol...United_Kingdom "In 2005/06 there were 766 offences initially recorded as homicide by the police in England and Wales (including the 52 victims of the 7 July 2005 London bombings),[18] a rate of 1.4 per 100,000 of population. Only 50 (6.6%) were committed with firearms, one being with an air weapon.[19] The homicide rate for London was 2.4 per 100,000 in the same year (1.7 when excluding the 7 July bombings).[20] However, the definition of homicide varies between countries. In the US the FBI asks for all homicides to be listed as murder, while the police force in the UK follows the cases and changes the data as need. This has resulted in the appearance of a lower homicide rate in the UK.[21] By comparison, 5.5 murders per 100,000 of population were reported by police in the United States in 2000, of which 70% involved the use of firearms.[22] New York City, with a population size similar to London (over 8 million residents), reported 6.9 murders per 100,000 people in 2004.[23]" There you go. Don't you see. there is a definate difference between the U.K. (some of tHE tightest gun laws in the world) and the U.S. Unofrtuantely from the numbers it appears that by taking away everyone's guns drastically reduces (altho obvisouly doesn't completley doesnt get rid of) homicides using weapons. That would involve taking YOUR guns away aswell. If tis happened you'd ahve to worry about defending yourself alot less than you would say driving a car or being a pedestrian. For every one person that dies from gun crime in the U.K; 67.2 die from traffic accidents. And only about 50 poeple a die a year in the U.K from gun crime. Haven't looked at U.S. deaths form road accidents.......maybe your laws int aht area would have to be tightened aswell Thanks, Jamie
Yes, you did. Of course I think you are actually more interested in a sincere discussion than a couple other people. But it still comes back to people vs. objects. I doubt you sincerely believe that if you somehow waved a magic wand a guns disappeared that violent dangerous people would cease to be violent, dangerous people. Danny Rolling didn't have a gun but I bet several of his victims wish they had one. Conversely, guns don't make non violent people violent. If I hand you a 1911 I doubt you will go off on a shooting spree. So the problem is obviously violent people, especially those who are willing to commit acts of violence against innocent people. And certainly the US has a large population of violent offenders, especially when compared to other countries. LA gangs wouldn't be tolerated for a second the way they way they are in this country. And I think "that" is the key difference between the two comparative murder rates. And given the fact that we are a bit more indulgent when it comes to criminal elements, the wiser citizens of this country plan accordingly. I hope I live the rest of my natural life and never have need to defend myself or my family. But I know that such things generally won't be left up to me. And that is why I practice martial arts, and that is why I am armed. I also practice martial arts and collect firearms for other reasons (cultural, educational, etc.) but that is a different discussion.
Actually no-one is taking away my swords, if you bothered to read the legislation. I am exempt because I am a member of a martial arts group that is in turn part of a larger governing body. My club also has the required insurance. So it is perfectly legal for me to purchase swords in fact in Scotland there is current no restriction on sword purchasing. Exactly my point, an over developed sense of paranoia. The belief that serial killers and child molesters are everywhere waiting for you to let down your guard. Ah LA gang members, I take it you don't subscribe to the idea that gang culture is a byproduct of the Armerican system due to it's discrimination and alienation of minorities. You have been verbose in detailing your beliefs. Well if you actually read my posts, I am happy with people being armed as long as they are trained and undertake the responsibility that comes with it. However that doesn't fit with your ideas of Socialism so you have choosen to ignore it. The Bear.
It comes back to lethality of available weapons. It's harder to kill someone with a knife than it is with a firearm. No but there would be a massive drop in the murder rate. No but if a violent confrontation take place they are more likely to use it. Do you actually know anything about the UK? We have an enormous gang problem. My own City of 700,000 people has over 170 gangs. Now imagine every one of those had access to firearms. It would make baghdad look like disney land. They "only" have access to knives and this is what curtails the murder rate. Don't make me laugh. Seriously you need to look around the world. The Bear.
depends on the range. Distance added into the situation yes - The Firearm wins everytime. Within a kill zone of less than 10 feet with average reaction time the knife wins hands down. I'd venture to say it's just as easy to wildly swing/stab with an edged weapon and leave a mortal wound as it is to draw, aim and then pull the trigger. Assuming the safety is off of course and there's a round chambered to begin with. But that's a whole 'nother debate. :topic:
I dunno the answer to that I'll need to ask my cousin who did CQB training in the S.A.S. what their view on it is. The Bear.
Hi Polar Bear, The general training template in the firearms versus knives question is the Tueller Drill, named after the Sgt who recorded a series of experiments in a parking lot in 1983. Using 'average' speed attackers trying to close distance as fast as they could and 'average' speed drawers they found that an officer needed a clear 21 feet in order to draw and fire an effective shot to avoid being stabbed. An advancing attacker can cover (at speed) 6ft in 0.5s, 12 ft in under 1s, 21 ft in less than 1.5s. At close range the knife nearly always has the advantage over the gun.
to be on the safe side, a lot of LEO and military(police and spec ops) and CP personel are being trained on 30 ft being being the minimum safe distance from a knife. I watched 2 veteran police officers get cut up pretty bad back in the late 80's by someone they thought was unarmed. They had actually searched him. Out of nowhere,seemingly, he produced 2 bladed instruments and to work. Of course, he stopped when they managed to shoot him in the face. But, upon later inspection,they noticed the body armour was barely touched. He knew damn well what he was doing. Except he didn't work his "bob&weave" too much Unfortunately, a lot of LEO's go for thier weapon on instinct. That is a habit they are trying to break at distances of 30ft or less. When someone is comming at you at full speed,you don't have time to ascertain whether or not if they have a weapon,what kind it is and do you have time to draw a sidearm. So,they need to get busy with nothing but their bare hands in that distance to finish or at least buy time to get the advantage. Civilians need to have that mindset as well. Guns are nice,but they tend to give a false sense of over confidence. Hence the reason I think tactical gun courses for civilians and LEO's should have lessons on how to draw your weapon when the stuff has already hit the fan. But thats just kooky old me :woo:
I imagine it will be an unpopular answer but I say capital and corporal punishment and the occasional kicking in prison would work wonders. As you say prison doesn't work and in britian they're just a free hotel. But everyone has a natural fear of physhical injury whether they want to admit it or not, and as my signature says two eyes for an eye.
with the argument about whether a knife or a gun is more dangerous I say that at close range a knife is more dangerous. If you know how to do it, say if you study Krav Maga, at close range it is pretty easy to get a gun off someone, and if the gun's fake then you've still got something to put in your hand and hit them with. but with a knife the only part of it you can grab easily is the blade which is obviously not a particularly safe thing to do.
Unpopular my ass. Go for it. The reason these creeps exist is because "we" are afraid of them and they do not have cause to fear us. two eyes for an eye? About time. regards koyo
Sorry but the moment you describe anything in combat as pretty easy you are heading for a fall - its pretty easy to learn the theory and technique - actually doing it? Not so much.
glad someone agrees with me, but for some strange reason I can't see Brown and the home secretary being to thrilled about it. They too busy putting terrorists and illegals first
I agree with you but at the same time all I can say about the subject is what I've seen in training and sparring. But I stand by what I said, if I'm being told by someone how to do something that's being taught to Israeli military, spetznaz, BGs and god knows who else, I'm inclined to believe it works.
http://www.cqbservices.com/?page_id=35 The above is a link to an article about knives designed for use be Police in circumstances where someone is trying to take their gun off them - obviously knives have some tactical uses weather you have guns or not. PS is the link dosent work you can find the article at the cqb services website along with various other interesting things.
Who cares I can't see Brown standing beside me in a fight Knifes don't run out of bullets and the first thing to go out the window in a fight is "the plan." Learn to go from zip to 100% attack in an instant and you "have a chance." regards koyo and get your "responce") in first:woo:
Thayrea - thats fine, I am sure there are people who can make it work and though I sincerely hope you never have to find out for real I hope you can make it work too. I have been shown some gun disarms (or rather ways of taking out a man with a gun) and while I found them fairly easy to learn and simple enough to be considerd realistic there is still a huge potential for any technique to go wrong. The more realistic our training is the more chance we have of pulling something off when we need it but any training is only a way of giving us a chance nothing more. Of course you still have to actually get to the gunman.
I agree 100%! The problem is, the punishment in nowhere equal to the crime. Criminals need to KNOW beyond the shadow of a doubt that the punishment is far worse than the crime they commit. One thing I want to point out to the people who keep harping on gun crime being higher in the US fail to realise that a lot of the time, just the "use" of a gun will be listed in "gun crime stats.". A large portion of said "gun crimes" come from citizens shooting back in defense or,even yet, shooting first for the pre-emptive strike. But no one thinks to look those stats,do they? They are hard to find,but they are out there.
