As usual, Hayseed, you've got a very good point. I was unaware of the Youtubes until, upon first viewing, I found them "locked". I guess that got me unthinkingly responding where I could, whether completely appropriate or not. You've very rightly brought me up short on this, twice. A lot of people were taking video; I do not know how possession of the videos was traded or gotten. We didn't limit it or charge. My gut assumption was that, if that part was possessed by someone, that someone had the whole thing. I mean, it would on the surface, be more difficult just to get a "part" of all those 2-day videos. Truthfully, I cannot know where that portion of video popped up first. I can't figure why Leon Major (whom, I believe, is an associate of Mr. Febres) would post that video clip of Carlos Febres either, as a representation of the seminar. I also find it curious that a copyright claim could be made, though Mr. Major was there and he did take video. Looking at it from that point of view, at least the Kusari-Kama video IS of Kawakami and Kiyomoto! So we're talking about someone who took video, then didn't post it, BUT gave a copy to someone who let someone ELSE post it...Lord, you're right this gets petty very quickly. Please accept my apology for bringing in this stuff; my only excuse is that it seemed to be "all one string". I certainly did not mean to connect Nutjob with a "shockjock" mentality and your point is well taken that my comments dragged that stuff into his discourse. I will refrain in the future. If your investigation shows that I'm incorrect (i.e., that the people who told me this are also incorrect and I accepted their statements in anger), I will certainly apologize for this also. I've learned, if anything, that you gentlemen really do have a healthy perspective. And...yes...if you've already had more than your share of that sort of treatment, you are the perfect person to say "Sure....tell me all about it...how's it feel?"
Hayseed; If I said something angrily and incorrectly, I don't think I'd be making anything better by "outing" the people who told me. If the statement is incorrect, I think I'd be best off bearing the embarrassment myself. Propaganda is a funny thing; entering into his discussion, I was not quite prepped to end up liking and respecting the individuals who seem to be the habitual participants of his forum. Gambatte to you also!
Having followed this thread, and the other ones about Kawakami, something came to mind: the videos on YouTube from the Japanese ninja documentary. One thing that I have to wonder about is this: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIX-tLYWAp4"]YouTube - JINICHI KAWAKAMI SOKE[/ame] As far as I have read, there has never been any historical proof for the straight ninja-to, and yet here he is demonstrating with an "old looking" one. Am I alone in thinking this is odd?
hi; The old, pitted blade that Kawakami pulls out of the saya is a wakizashi, much as is indicated in Bansenshukai. It is not straight and the scabbard is longer than the blade. The straight blade with the pointed saya tip is a different weapon from the one Kawakami draws in the video; it is not used in the video by Kawakami; that "bit" and all the techniques shown are re-enactments performed by "Kurondo", the Ninja re-enactment troop. The footage is mixed between Kawakami's explanations and "Demo's" by Kurondo. The video is old NHK. Kurondo is on record as having Kawakami as a "consultant", but how big the pure "entertainment factor" is for that troop is still vague to me. Kuroi Hiromitsu, the leader of Kurondo, has some personal allegiance to Kawakami and I know this has caused some confusion. I've seen number of Net references, by those who don't really know, to Kawakami being just a showman or re-enactor, when he really is a historical consultant for the group. Kiyomoto and Kawakami both have well maintained katana, stored/kept lying along side that pitted piece. I was really curious about that "nasty" old blade too and did ask Kiyomoto when my wife and I first visited he and Kawakami, in Fukui. He explained that while not exactly the "ninja-to", that blade was not meant to be treated as well as others, because it was used as a sort of giant utility knife. I'll be able to get to extended answer to our discussion question "Was there such a thing as a Ninja-to" upon my return home. In the mean time....Jeremy? If you'e following this thread..might you shed some light on Kawakami's comments?
So you're saying that it's an old wakizashi with a large, square tsuba? It might just be my eyes, but when he is drawing it, the saya looks rather straight to me.
From looking at the video, I'd say that the weapon was about 2 Shaku with a very slight sori. It's definately not a chokuto (straight blade).
Square tsuba did exist. http://www.japanesesword.com/Images/Fittings/1200tsuba7/old_iron_wakizashi_tsuba.htm However, they were largely prohibited under the Tokugawa bakufu. http://www.una.edu/faculty/takeuchi...o_files/Kuroro_nuri_saya_and_metal_kojiri.htm During the Sengoku period there would be no standardization, but square tsuba were known. Late in the Edo period rebellious samurai would use them.
Yup, as Kogusoku pointed out, if you stop the video and examine the "ninja-tou" closely, it has a very, very slight sori. Easy to miss if one doesn't actually pause the video and look closely.
Dayn DeRose Just heard back from a contact at the Tanuki Dojo; Hope this helps put it to rest. Thank you. P.S. For future reference, it takes a very serious transgression to be "thrown out" of a Bujinkan Dojo. It can be easy, when speaking of ninja, to fall into misinformation and romanticized melodrama. Particularly when dealing with "neo groups".
Hi; Then my announced apologies for helping to spread misinformation; thank you for addressing the issues fair mindedness by putting both sets of "rants" in their proper perspectives, respectively. There are a lot of better issues to discuss. Unless it doesn't "fit" for you, please ...it's just "Dayn"
Dear friends I´m spanish, living in Japan and studying under Kiyomoto sensei. The first important thing to say is, please, excuse my bad English. I think I can make myself to be understood, but I know I make some mistakes. The second one is that you should never consider my words as official declarations of my school. Instead, I´d prefer you to consider me just as a begginer with good intentions. The third one is that the group of Spanish accepted students of this school, in which I include myself, has nothing to do with "Japan ninjutsu federation" of Mr. Juan Hombre. I´m sure he is doing a great work, but we have nothing to do with him and not necessarily (you say this?) agree with his ponts of view. I started studying under Kiyomoto sensei in 2004, when I went to Japan for just an interview (my oldest student came with me). He rejected us twice, and then told me our training was starting the next day (Fortunately I new about japanese bujutsu manners and traditions, and I did not give up with the first rejection, which would be the polite way in Spain). I´d like to reinforce one matter you have been talking about, which is the most important in this moment, I think: Bujutsu is not ninjutsu,ninjutsu is not bujutsu. The main problem (in my opinion) is about terminology. We westerners consider that ninjutsu is a martial art with "nage", "atemi", "shime", "katana"... But that, according to Kawakami soke teachings and most of koryu bujutsu, is not right (you can check Katori Shinto, Yagyu Shingan, etc). Perhaps you could consider ninjutsu to be bujutsu the same way you can consider the art of building military castles to be bujutsu. So, the same way than the schools about the art of making castles are not in Ryuha Daijiten (I think, perhaps I´m wrong), ninjutsu is not in that book. In the west we have a different idea, mainly because of movies of the 80´s, and I think the fact that Bujinkan used the name Togakure Ryu ninjutsu for so long time did not help much. We have been tought that shinobi were (in "golden times") a kind of samurai with very specific instruction, from childhood. They studied bujutsu, too; but the matter is: Should a shinobi study some special bujutsu school? I don´t think so. In those days, without train or car, in a country in civil war, they use to study their homeland martial arts. That´s why, with time, some bujutsu school and some shinobinoden traditions joined and started to be transmitted together (its the same, i.e. with Takagi Yoshin Ryu and Kukishin Ryu bujutsu, two bujutsu schools which usually are transmitted together even in other lines, not only the Takamatsuden). That is why I think this school is not going to become a big business (at least I hope so). In this school you study a very interesting bujutsu (Izumoshin ryu battojutsu, Toda jutte, Shizukaryu kusarigama, Toda Bo, yawara, koppo...), but the ninjutsu is tought not as a way of fighting, but as some historic military teachings. Attractive only -perhaps- for those westerners who become sometimes more japanese than japanese. Besides, some knowledges of this shinobinoden will be probably lost after Kawakami sensei, as far as the training he got in his childhood is ilegal nowadays. Social Services will not allow you to train so, so hard, a child, and training from childhood is the only way to develop some special (non natural, I think not too healthy) skills. In old times they were not thinking in living a long healthy life, but to serve their family/country with their own sacrifice, if necessary. I hope my information has been of interest. Best regards to you all, and specially to Daniel DiMarzio, who I met in Shagamihara dojo.
