Santi Shi is the core of Hsing I, Holding the Tree is fairly common practice in Taiji, ...What sort of standing practice does Bagua use, if any? Just curious, as you don't tend to hear much about Bagua standing practices.
Hey Bai.As no one has answered your query yet- "Traditionally" PK doesn't seem to have post training .Not to say that no practitioners do it, but does not seem to be mentioned as part of the curriculum historically.Of course we're not referring to static stance training.Not that most seem to do a lot of that either. With the cross training twixt HI and PK folks in Peking in the later 1800's practitioners with PK as their base would have learned it from their HI brethren. Think the PK equivalent is circlewalking with torso in static postion.
The only PK, post training I have seen is just as El mentioned, teachers doing their own work. I know John Painter used to just stand in wuji posture then switch PK palms after 15-20 mins and do this for an hour or so. So it seems at least in PK, that it is up to the student/teacher.
In the style I studied, there was doing walking the circle than changing the hands to certain palms. These are not the palm change completely, but the eight palms themselves. These would be done as fist and elbows, they would never just stand and hold one palm ( never static stance ). The stances would change as you walked the circle you would very your height depending on your level of experience, this relates to there being three different basins. This is do to the idea that there is always movement in Pagua. Even when standing still there is movement.
Well that doesn't prove it has always been a part of training - if you read all the old Pa Kua Chang Journals, there doesn't seem to be much talk of static stance training in the syllabuses or programs mentioned. I think people just add stuff in when they feel like it - since the whole "internal style" mythology sprung up, people probably decided that if static posture training was good in Xingyi (and other styles), it would be good in Bagua too, but plenty of people have claimed that it goes against Bagua theory (nothing in the universe is still, so you should never be still). There is an idea in training that if the legs are still the arms should be moving and vice versa - this has a direct parallel to Silat training that isolates the upper and lower body for separate development, working together or separately as is martially expedient. But if you want to stand still, why not? People come up with all kinds of ways to avoid contact training
Not trying to prove anything fyi.. I posted this as an example for the OP to see what's out there. What is being trained. The clip is from someone in the Yin Fu lineage. Static training of stances/postures is not uncommon in KF systems.
In my opinion if it does not hurt, it could be added. I think this is why some PK styles did add "post standing" to their training methods, also as JK mentioned to an extent they did see the effectiveness that it could bring to Hsing I etc. For MA to evolve it is not uncommon practice to bring in good training methods.
Dong Hai Chuan didn't teach anyone who was not already proficient in a system of kung fu. So making them do horse stance or other basic work like holding postures or zhan zhuang was not what his training method was about I would have thought. Circle walking on the other hand.. It shouldn't be any surprise that jibengong in bagua largely if not exclusively draws from other systems. Circle walking permitted.
I had no idea about that thanks for the info! Yeah, I think most people did eventually add Zhan Zhuang due to other Qigong endeavors. Who knows when, where, why or how????
As I've been beginning Bagua training in earnest, I've been enjoying post training. Primarily I've had to do it to establish the foundations of posture for mudstepping/walking the circle -- much like the stuff in the Black Taoist video (which isn't surprising because they're training brothers with my Bagua instructor, both of whom were trained by Kenny Gong). Needless to say, my legs are killing me. But it's really helping with my overall practice. - Matt
It is important to remember that Bagua has another kind of post training too - the words "post training" to me conjure up walking around one or more posts and practicing orientating oneself and delivering strikes to said posts. A room with concrete pillars can be useful to train in, assuming you don't have a garden with sturdy posts planted in it. Otherwise, bamboo canes in weighted bottles or staff-thickness poles (like broom handles) stuck in weights laid flat can be fun to knock over. Alternatively, you can practice qie (sawing) along the edges of the posts without really knocking them over. Even if you can't rig up anything sturdy enough to hit, you can practice weaving in and out during form practice, mindful of where your imaginary foes are in relation to yourself and practicing stepping precision accordingly. It helps bring it all to life. In another kind of pole training, Mike Patterson does some interesting form work maintaining sticky contact with a pole that would otherwise fall on the floor. It is available on DVD and has applications, and as with all his stuff (IMO), it is exceptionally good. Now if he picked up the pole and hit you with it, would that be a postal strike? I'll await some post post feedback...
I had heard that John Painter has a room with 5-10 of the 75 lb weight bags he trains in and then gets them swinging while circling and striking them.
Couldn't resist! Ahhh but grasshopper ... one can discover motion in stillness . Not all ... it depends on the style of Silat. Are you refering to Serak? Lol ... and some people are dismisive of all they do not understand (or see eye to eye with). I agree that full contact has a valuable place as well though. Cheers and salams, Krisno
