Bad martial art videos

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Hapuka, Apr 25, 2011.

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  1. Hapuka

    Hapuka Te Aho

    Michelle should consider getting a refund from whoever gave her a brown belt (apparently she does TKD). I felt a bit sorry for her watching this video. :(

    Denial will only get you so far. Better she faced the music in the enviroment she did rather than in a real life self defense situation.

  2. Hapuka

    Hapuka Te Aho

  3. Hapuka

    Hapuka Te Aho

  4. Hapuka

    Hapuka Te Aho

  5. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    She sparred under a completely unfamiliar ruleset against a much taller, heavier and stronger opponent who was experienced in that ruleset and lost. Why should she need a refund? If we were watching a female boxer getting tossed around like a ragdoll by a heavyweight judoka would she need to ask for a refund on her training?

    What are you talking about denial for? Is there a backstory you're not sharing? Why is this a bad martial art video?

  6. Hapuka

    Hapuka Te Aho


  7. Hapuka

    Hapuka Te Aho

    I have provided the back story that was given with the video. But I did some more research and apparently she also has a brown belt in Sambo (I wasn't aware that Sambo even had a grading system).

    As for the sparring, I presumed that she being a brown belt had some basic knowledge of the fundamentals. I didn't really see much of that in terms of either TKD or Sambo, except for her covering up. It could have been the case that she hadn't of spared someone bigger than herself yet alone a male before, and for that I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. However, I presumed that mixed gender sparring was generally a common sight in full contact martial arts, I was also under the impression that sparring was also practiced regularly by brown belts.
  8. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    If she was a brown belt judoka she would have no knowledge of boxing. If she was a kickboxer who fought under no low kicks/sweeps rules she would have no experience of dealing with them and no groundgame.

    All I see is a video of someone with no MMA experience taking part in MMA sparring for the first time against a much bigger, heavier and stronger opponent. there's no surprise that she loses is there?

    As for denial, what evidence do we have of it?

    So other than mocking someone for having no experience, but having the guts to stand up and compete against a much stronger opponent on their own ground, what does this achieve? How is it a bad martial art video?

  9. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Hmmm....I don't think it's as cut and dry as that.
    A brown belt in TKD and/or Sambo would suggest at least a passing familiarity with stand up striking and/or grappling.
    I don't see any such familiarity in evidence in that video. She turns away when hit, ducks to grab low kicks, etc etc. Bad habits.
    On the ground she shows scant regard for position and instead opts for inneffective strikes.
    She doesn't need to "win" to display some skills. Just show she's got some idea of what she's doing.
    It's a common fallacy that advocates of MMA type sparring or testing expect people to win in order to display their skill.

    I mean I agree that this is not a "bad" martial arts video at all. It's some sparring. We can all look sub-par when sparring. It shouldn't be here.
    But I too would be questioning what my training up to that point had achieved if that was the results when I sparred MMA style.
  10. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Definitely some bad habits she shouldn't have, but I don't think we can criticise for not dealing with low kicks and not having a ground game if she's never sparred with them before, can we?

    I don't think she needs to "win" either, and I certainly agree with you that it has no place in a bad videos thread. Pointing and laughing at people for doing badly at something utterly unfamiliar isn't highlighting a bad video, it's just unpleasant. How about we video each MAP member's first attempt at a 360 kick and post the results to laugh at without their knowledge?

    To be fair we could post my current attempts and it would elicit the same response...

    Mitch :D
  11. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I'd be up for that. I have a camcorder and a sense of self-deprecation. :)
    What's a 360 kick again?
  12. 19thlohan

    19thlohan Beast and the Broadsword

    Where does it say her brown belt is in TKD? When I read the video description it says she tested for her brown belt and this is her first time sparring with mma rules. To me they made it sound like this was part of her test and she was just beginning to spar at brown belt.

    If she is a brown belt in TKD then at the very least she should have had better foot work and distance control skills and there aren't any rules in mma that would have prevented her from using them!

    I don't know what the true story is but most people are going to read the vid description and watch the video. Based on that this video is begging for some harsh criticism!
  13. Hapuka

    Hapuka Te Aho

    Care to explain what the difference is between a 'bad' martial arts video and an 'unpleasant' martial arts video is? (I need to know this so I can refine my own personal definition, at the moment two and two are in the same boat). Maybe you could demonstrate for me through two different video examples - A 'bad' martial arts video and an 'unpleasant' martial arts video - I tend to understand things better that way.

    But to respond what I thought was 'bad' with it;

    MMA isn't rocket science... its mixed martial arts.
    The techniques in MMA are fairly universal in both its stand up and ground work. I'm not stating this video is bad because she didn't win, or she didn't throw proper low kicks, I'm stating this video is bad because she hardly did anything, nor did I see any Sambo.

    Watching videos like this scares me, especially at the level she's at being so close to black belt (if that means anything anymore). This wasn't heavy sparring, or sparring in the cage, that was light sparring.

    What if she was attacked on the street?

    Yes, I whole heartily agrees she deserves a big pat on the back for giving it a go (and I mean that, MMA is not a soft art), but thats not the issue here. The issue here was that she couldn't defend herself. And by all means, I hope she continues MMA.

    Please don't take this the wrong way, I never meant this as a personal attack on her but as an example (I have posted similar videos on this thread before, however I didn't take the time to offer much in terms of commentary). Its really important that we don't delude ourselves nor others of their own abilities (which is what I was seeing here), and that we be real with ourselves through regular evaluation and testing. Its the only way we can improve and shed light on our progress.

    Free sparring is one of the closet things you're going to get to a real life self defense situation as its one of the only times (generally) in the martial arts practice where both practitioners are fighting based on reactions (second nature). In any full contact martial art (such as Sambo), technique and sparring is bread and butter.
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2012
  14. Hapuka

    Hapuka Te Aho

    I know shes a brown belt in Sambo based on the channels other videos, the TKD info I got from tags. So chances are I'm mistaken about the TKD. My bad, I just realized that now, or it could be that the guy sparring her does TKD.

    There is a separate video for her brown belt grading featuring grappling. I saw first time MMA sparring, but I didn't see first time sparring (they could be the same thing). Her brown belt video features rolling in it. Whats confusing is I didn't see any of this in her MMA sparring match.

    Last edited: Mar 22, 2012
  15. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    You're saying MMA is easy? When was your first match? How did it go?

    That was the point of the video - she was having a crack at some MMA sparring against bigger, heavier, more experienced opponent. She reacted like most people would against a bigger, heavier, more experienced opponent. If you doubt it, pick a martial art that you don't know and challenge a bigger guy to a spar in it.

    In what way? Had she been posting that she could a beat a bigger guy in her first go at some friendly MMA sparring? If not, how was she deluded?

    To be honest, it reads to me like you were being a bit patronising and trying to make out that she'd suddenly had her eyes opened to reality of the big bad world for the first time, when actually she just agreed to have a bit of a kick about with a big bloke for the fun of it and, surprise surprise, didn't kick his ass.
  16. Hapuka

    Hapuka Te Aho

    I didn't say it was easy either...

    But, you're probably right, I was reading too much into it and It wasn't fair of me to place her in this thread.
  17. masterPain

    masterPain Valued Member

    I remember a thread on this on Bullshido. Did you guys notice that it took her about 5 seconds to stand up from the ground? In a fit looking young woman, that's a sign of exhaustion. Being that tired makes anyone fall apart. This was at the end of a long hard test. To top it off, Omega is a former pro fighter, and enough of a hardcase that if he says she deserves her rank, then she deserves it.
  18. Hapuka

    Hapuka Te Aho

    Thanks for the clarification. Next time I will be extremely careful with what I post and will not post anything without researching into it first.

    Lesson learnt (and my ego temporally crushed).
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2012
  19. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    No need for any ego crushing Hapuka:)

    Put it this way. For me personally (not as a MAP Mod) a bad martial arts video is someone claiming something is good and then patently displaying something bad. So if the lady in the video here spent some time telling everyone that her TKD/Sambo/Insert Art here would kick ass against any opponent in an MMA match, then got schooled, it's a "bad martial arts video."

    In other words if claims of experience or ability are made which are patently false, it deserves a place here.

    If a video shows someone who makes no such claims, doing badly under unknown circumstances, what we're actually doing is making fun of the individual for not doing well at something they may be doing for the first time, which really isn't fair. The point of training is to get better, so most people who start in whatever art are going to suck at some point.

    In other words laughing at a lack of experience when no such claims are made seems (to me at least) rather mean spirited.

    Context is also important. I once watched a knockdown grading where a black belt candidate was taken to the limit of his abilities over 10 rounds of knockdown kumite, each against a fresh opponent. A video of the last round would have shown a man at the point of breaking, being swept, hit, only occasionally able to counter effectively, against a seemingly fitter, faster, much "better" opponent. Only those who saw the preceding 9 rounds would know the true test he had been through.

    So someone doing badly is not a bad martial arts video. Someone doing badly when they think and say they are doing well, is.

    All IMO of course :)

  20. Daithí

    Daithí Valued Member

    'Michelle' looked severely fatigued alright. Maybe she reverted to instinctive bad posture because of that. She went completely side on a number of times and got taken down quickly. Also why at 0.38 does the voice tell her not to block with her knee? The only reason I can think of is to prevent injury to her sparring partner. Why does 'Omega' have his hands so low? Perhaps it's because he knew he was against someone with much less experience?

    @Mitch: How long were the rounds in the knockdown grading? In Kyokushin Budokai I did a 5 man kumite (can't remember how long the rounds were) for 10th Kyu. At the 2007 summer camp in Croatia students grading for black belt did 30. Some of the higher dan grades, including my former coach, who was 1st dan, did 50.
    I'm not bragging. It just seems low for a knockdown Black Belt. I would have had to do 10 for 7th Kyu is all.
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