Modern Hsing-I emerged from northwest China in the nineteenth century from an individual known as Li Lou Neng, although legend has it Hsing-I was originally created by arguably China’s best general Yue Fei many year before. Li Lou Neng had three top students who eventually form the three main Hsing-I schools; Shanxi School, Hebei School and I Chuan School. It was from his second student, who set up his dojo in Hebei, that the much popularised myth about a fight between Ba Gua founder Tung Hai Chuan and Li’s student, Gou Yun Shen renowned master of Hsing-I. The myth says that they met, battled for an extensive period of time before coming to a draw and deciding to trade secrets. In reality, the Ba Gua and the Hsing-I schools had always been friendly, and in fact seven of the worlds then best as Ba Gua and Hsing-I were sharing the same house in Tianjin. When Ba Gua practitioners fight against Hsing-I practitioners, the result is virtually certain. Ba Gua wins. The Ba Gua students were happy to learn Hsing-I due to it’s comparative ease and it’s straight forward simplicity, and the Hsing-I students were more than happy to learn some Ba Gua since they were tired of getting their ass kicked! The spiralling twisting motion of Ba Gua offers no stable target for a Hsing-I practitioner to blast into (or through as it were). Hsing-I is definitely devastating! There are many Hsing-I prac. Who only use two moves! I know a few people who base their entire defence structure on Pi Chuan, and their entire attack based Beng Chuan. It really is like having a huge boulder just roll over you! Unless I was facing a Ba Gua master, I’d be quite happy with Hsing-I. But to agree with someone’s (sorry can’t remember where it was!) comment that masters of internal arts (or any I should think for that matter) know that the biggest mistake you can make is to make the first move. Masters of Martial Arts when faced opposite each other should end with laughing and tea, stories of old. All of the above information can be found (if you wish to research) in Bruce Kumar Frantzis’ book called The Power Of Internal Martial Arts. It also has an excellent chapter on his Nei Gung technique. Highly recommend for anyone wishing to read about Internal Arts.
sounds interesting enough but a bit like an advertisement sorry what you say about the bagua and hsing-i is interesting the straight line philosophy against one of spiralling or circiling if i remember correctly dont know too much about the hsing-i.
Bollocks I'd say. Wheres Henan province xing yi? Wheres reference to Xin Yi? What about the Dai Family, or Ji Long Feng? Bagua always winning? Fallacy! The only good bagua players i've seen are the ones who've extensively done xing yi too - if they're purist they're ****e! Besides in 'modern' xing yi, there are several animals which are impressively useful at taking out most bagua players, and at least 1 that can easily stay on-par with them. Hou, Gui and Tuo definately spring to mind.
Tai Chi, Ba Gua and Xing Yi decided to stay together. Su Lu Tang studied Xing Yi, Ba Gua and Tai Chi. Xing Yi influences his Ba Gua and Tai Chi, vice versa. Sun style Tai Chi. Dong Hai Chuan defeated his students with Ba Gua and Light step. Thus his students studied from him. Yin Fu studied Luo Han Shou and Tan Tui first. He incorporated into Ba Gua. Cheng Ting Hua studied Shuai Jiao since a boy. His incorporated Shuai Jiao into Ba Gua. Since Cheng did not learn any other style. His Ba Gua is said to be more close to original Dong style. Shi Ji Dong knew Tan Tui. Shi married Dong's adopted daughter. When Dong was retiring, he lived at Shi's house. Liang Zhen Pu was Dong's late life student. Most of his learning was from Shi. However, legend said most of the refined stuff at Dong's late life passed on to Liang only. Jiang Rong Jiao studied Xing Yi first then Ba Gua. He merged Xing Yi into his Ba Gua. He served as an instructor in Nanjing Kuoshu committee and wrote the book "Ba Gua Zhang" and popularized the style thruout China. So a Xing Yi first guy promoted Ba Gua thruout China. My point is that in the begining of the 20th century. The three are mixed and matched already.
Hands out flame-retardant suits, popcorn and beach chairs to everyone in the forum... When will people learn NOT to create style v style threads?!?
Im going to contribute. Guo, I dont what your talking about, but some of the really good Ba Gua practicioners ive seen have done Ba Gua, exclusively, I highly doubt that Hsing-I is needed to help it be better, or at all if the user a is a BG man. Secondly Sheyja, thats a stupid statement that Ba Gua always wins, which it does NOT against Hsing-I fighters. havnt you heard of Cheng Ting Hwa's famous Student, Liu Bin? (Who, BTW, trained Liu Xing Han & then who trained John Bracy who founded the Hsing-chen school in California) Liu Bin dueled a famous unknown opponent in Heavens gate park where several Martial artists train by legacy. At the end, it was revealed that the unamed opponent was a famouns Hsing-I user. Liu complimented him on his skill and technique, and the enemy complimented Liu on his balance, grace and evasion, and they went their seperate ways. Its been well said the such between the three big IMA's that they all equal out. Dont try and seperate Sheyja, to think so is plain old fashion stupid
Ziranmen beats them all .... Wan Lai Shan won the first chinese full contact tourney ... there was the cream of ba gua, xing yi and tai chi there ... no one could get near him! just playing devils advocate .... But back to the thread ... Xing Yi and ba gua hold similarities, and also have their skill sets in different area's. For multiple opponents ba gua is more practical IME, but xing yi has power unlike any other art i have seen. I think it is a very very close call. I have studied both with very good teachers and i skill cant pick one as 'better' ... they are both excellent ... in different ways. as for the best masters studying xing yi to enhance there ba gua .... i dont agree .... look at the Yin Fu Line and you will find that this is not the case ... He was most probably the best of Dongs students having stayed with him for 20 years compared to Cheng Ting hua's 3 or 4. Looking at Master He Jin Han or other top Yin style adepts, there art doesnt resemble xing yi in application, power generation or movement. The most popular ba gua around in the west at the moment is Probably Gao style through Lou De Xiou. His system is quite obviously flavoured by his superlative Xing Yi Skill. Kind Regards Chris
I really like the sound of Ziranmen, from what I've read about it & Serge Augier.. As for the 3 sisters, well I've heard it said that Lui He Ba Fa is the Daddy.. I agree with BaiKai Guy style v style is pointless.. Everyone knows TJQ is best. (grin)
yeh Serge is my teachers teacher .... a very powerful guy! IMO one of the best IMA's in the west. Regards Chris
^ cool A Kozma's your teacher - I really enjoyed his book 'esoteric warriors' You should get over to the oo r ya thread and introduce yourself - nice to have you on board. sometime in the future I'd like to attend a seminar or 2 with your teacher. Do you know the best link/contact for the up & coming 'short' seminars? - not the weekend courses. cheers geo
Alex has settled in Thailand now, But me and Paul Alexander teach his stuff over here. www.ukbaguainstitute.com is our website. Beyond the Mysterious Gate is a much better book than EW - probably worth a read! Cheers Chris
about 4 1/2 years. I was lucky in that after a couple of years of knowing him, he and paul moved about a mile down the road from me and we trained alot, got alot in the way of Cheng and Yin Ba gua, Old Tai Chi and lots of Xing Yi. very privelidged! A great teacher and adept ... (although he would probably laugh at me saying that!) Cheers Chris
I am personally not too big of a xing yi fan. I have heard that Cheng Ting Hua used to get together with a xing yi guy and a tai chi guy. They concluded that if you knew one of their arts, you basically know them all.
