I have never studied Ba Gua(is it the same as Pa Kua? A different dialect maybe, I've heard of that but not this) I saw the clips posted up and was intrigued as to its guiding principles and how they are put into action through the training. As well as Tai-Chi-Chuan this look like it could be a good internal style to study. I am interested by the internal arts thingy but know nothing about it and am not training in any of the styles until I can find either the time, a decent school or a style that really interests me. so tell me what you can of Ba Gua(Pa Kua??)
The biggest aspect of bagua to distinguish it is circle turning, walking around an imagined center looking at the hand. Its purposely dizzying in the beginning and the body adapts strengthening your equilibruim. It requires twisting of the torso, waist, and hips in order to keep the hand on the true center. This stretching and working of the large muscle groups, as the upper and lower body want to go in opposite directions, is what develops bagua's powerful side to side and inward strikes on the relatively horizontal plane. Its also continuously working on the stepping methods since bagua is known for striking while stepping. The feet are always moving and the root of the strike coming off one foot is aided by circle turning and changing on the circle. That's a start.
Check out the Zhongding website. In exeter you have a teacher called John Fowler who though does not teach Ba Gua himself should be able to put you in the right direction and i think one of his students Ian has just come back from Malaysia having done a lot of Ba Gua www.threestyles.com They are both in your back yard and can probably help you out.
Word. I think they could have done a better job with the overview, on the web site you suggested Moononthewater, on Ba Gua (Pa Kua) …… Quot - “Baguazhang, translated in English as ‘Eight Palms,’ is based on the Eight Tri-grams. The Eight Tri-grams are an important part of Chinese beliefs. The style of Bagua taught by the Zhong Ding association is the Beijing Gao Family style. Able to trace the lineage of their style back to the founder of Baguazhang, Dong Hai Quan. “Characterized by the circling movements, most commonly seen in the forms and the basic exercises, Bagua is summed up in the phrase ‘constantly changing hand techniques and agile footwork.’ It originally was taught to caravan guards and bodyguards who would have to fight multiple opponents. “For health aspects Bagua, works on a system of partial relaxation and Dynamic Tension, whilst keeping inline with the body mechanics of internal arts, providing a balanced system of health improvement. For the martial side, Bagua is a fast moving and flowing system of continuous techniques. - East Devon Zhong Ding, Traditional Martial Arts Association (keep in mind this is just an opinion and I’ve only practiced Ba Gua for a little over a year now) While Ba Gua dose mean Eight Tri-grams the Martial Art itself wasn’t originally called that, it was called ‘Turning Palms’ by the creator, and in his own account co-creator, Dong Hai Quan. The middle part sound good. The last part sounds right as well but it could go in to a lot more detail. Like for instance the fact that you learn how to get momentum from the waist by twisting and folding it. Many times you’ll find this needs to be performed at the same time and in different spots on the body. Also you have to be in a constant state of ‘Taigung’, bringing the shoulders forward (not up) and clenching the toes every time you root the foot. The change in direction in witch you walk the circle is also done with the waist and a movement that I call wiping the hands. All this while walking constantly, normally in a circle. The point? To get behind your opponent exposing the kidneys. To have three limbs to fight with at any given moment (this is more advanced) two arms and a leg. To gain the high mobility it takes to weave in and out of multiple opponent’s close combat range while doing damage. I hope I’ve bin of some assistance. I love Ba Gua and love to practice it every day. I never get tired of it. - neji :Angel:
thanks so far, sounds very interesting...shame that there are no schools near me... so the constant movement and circular motions are to allow you to strike at different angles and evade counters quickly whilst disorienting an opponent?
xNejix just to pick you up on a little something how long have you been doing Ba Gua? The people who run this association and run the Website have been doing it a bit longer than you so nothing personal but i will go along with their description. As for what is said the site is there to help not give a lesson which is why you get all the details of the teachers. If you go along to train with the teachers you will get the detail from attending the classes. The Devon class is run by a Guy who has been training well over 10 years and spent over a year in Malaysia training every day. I am not trying to be rude but the question was on more info on Ba Gua i gave him the websites so he could train or speak with the teacher not learn from a website. As for not having a school near you John Fowler lives in Exeter and im pretty sure Ian is in the area.
To add some new info: When you learn bagua, you learn a set of "palm changes". There are, of course, 8 of these that you use to switch directions on the circle. The first palm change is pretty simple and later palm changes integrate fairly complex motions. Once you know all of these changes, you can put them together in various orders to traverse the circle. Furthermore, each of the palm changes has a unique hand position that is use dto traverse the circle--Its not always the commonly seen position...
A little pick me up on somthing. Dear Moononthewater - I don’t think I was disregarding the school in any way shape or form. If you think so then I’m sorry I offended you, and the school, in such a manner. When you suggested that Anomandaris read the three paragraph niche about Ba Gua, which gives a terribly brief background, I was intrigued to read more about the IMA I love so much that I read it my self. Funny enough I didn’t think that any of the things on the web page were out of place or discrediting. I simply didn’t think it was long enough and was missing information that I had to share. Not information I had just that day pulled out of my hat, for indeed I have no hats to speak of, but instead information I have read from book’s, not unlike: “Ba Gua: Hidden Knowledge in the Taoist Internal Martial Art”, by Liu Xing-Han and John Bracy. Also I would like to point out that I learn Ba Gua along with Manny other arts from a teacher, who for one loves to hear himself talk. But that’s the good part, I get a history lessons on the way to Ba Gua betterment. So please, don’t look bad at my trying to add to the conversation. - Neji
There is an Internal Martial Arts joke that goes like this (it's only really funny to people really into their IMA but it's a good demonstration as to how the three main IMA's work) Three assassins are sent out to kill the three masters of Internal Martial Arts, Tai Chi, Hsing-I and Ba Gua in their castles. The first assassin approaches the Tai Chi master's castle, knocks on the door and instantly starts attacking the master as the door is opened. The Tai Chi master blocks and parrys gently until the assassin dies of exhaustion. The second assassin approaches the Hsing-I master's castle, as he comes to the door, the Hsing-I master blasts into the heavy front door where it falls on the assassin killing him instantly. The third assassin approaches the Ba Gua master's house. The Ba Gua master stayed seated in his chair, and when the assassin stepped onto the drawbridge he rotated the castle around himself and flung the assassin away. Tada! it's great huh?! Another shorter way of explaining is: Tai Chi is like trying to fight water. Hsing-I is like being run over by a large boulder. Ba Gua is like fighting a tornado. I love Ba Gua, it's incredibly powerful, fluid, spiritual and...well...I just love it.
In that case xNejix i apoligise for jumping the gun a little. I do only a little Ba Gua myself as i have found the Tai Chi mixed with my knowledge of external arts is all i need for myself but the Ba Gua lads in our association have worked ver hard and our main teacher Nigel Sutton spends many months in China with his Ba Gua teacher training aswell as in Malaysia. In fact Nigel is in the process of writing a book on Ba Gua which will hopefully be published next year.
Awsome! See that's really sweet! I actually want to go to Taiwan or other places where there are well know Masters to train from (Taiwan the only one I can think of), for I also, like your teacher, have the urge to live my life dedicated to the IMAs, Mainly Ba Gua. I want to become an instructor one day. Also I go to the park every day and practice so I know what a joy Ba Gua is and I'm so happy to see all the people on the IMAs forum getting exited about it. Also I would like to know all about the book you Master is writing on the subject. - Neji
Nigel Sutton has written a number of books allready on Tai Chi Chuan and has a couple of books in the pipeline one on Ba Gua and one on Fightimg applications from Tai Chi Chuan. Though if you really are thinking of going abroad get hold of his book "searching for the way" its all about his first steps into living in Malaysia and Meeting his teachers there and in China.
So, I wanted to know if I could blast a door down and crush someone with my hsing-i so I ordered a pizza. The delivery guy ran off with the pizza and my door still stands. Maybe if I'd have used beng instead of pao?
