B.K. Frantzis fa jing video

Anyone else seen this video? Looks jumpy from the outset but slow it down and youll see something extremely questionable

http://www.energyarts.com/shared/library/videogallery/fajingmov.html

 

They deleted a bunch of frames by the look of it.

 

I've seen this clip before. It does look like he's chopped the clip. It also looks a bit too staged. It's a shame because I am sure that BK Frantzis is well respected, but this just takes away from that.

A mate and I staged one of these fajing doodahs for a guy in france. The pic looked really cool. It wasn't good taiji though.

 

Has anyone here been 'Fa Jinge'd' so to speak, with a throw type move like in the clip? (as opposed to a hit that smashes your insides)

Luckily I have had the opportunity to be on the receiving end of several such 'Fa Jings'. The reason I found myself in such a position is as follows. When I first started training Tai Chi, I saw these types of 'Fa Jings' demonstrated, I though they looked fake, never the less I joined the class to see for myself, after about two weeks, I decided to ask one of the instructors to demonstrate the sort of throw I saw in a demonstration. He (instructor) asked me to grab his wrists and hold on as tight as I could.. as I did, with hardly any externally perceivable movement, the guy launched me in to the air much like in the picture.. I was considerably impressed, though I asked for a second go. On the second movement from the same position he gave me that which resulted in me flying backwards, with my feet trailing backwards behind me, for around five meters at which point I came across a wall, which I promptly smacked in to.

Since then, I have made several recordings of our Grand Master, doing these sort of things to people during demonstrations, every time I look at it, and every person I have shown it to says it looks fake, I think it looks fake too. But, from my experience I will say looks can be deceiving, these movements don’t work on the same principles that most people are used to, in the same sense their manifestation is not the same as what most people are used to.

I know that had someone filmed these things being done to me, they would have looked fake, but I also know that I was being chucked around as if I was in zero gravity.

The only thing I can say is to find a High Level Master, such as B. K. F. and politely ask him to bounce you off the ceiling, or something along these lines.

 

I have read in many places of B. K. F.'s high skill and teaching, and have no reason to dispute it.
Whether this video is real or not (some possible complication making the video look like that), it looks like a fraud and will only discredit fa jing when people see it.

Zillabilla, is there any way we can see the videos of your master fajing-ing some students? A website maybe?

 

Actaully just came across this article by Erle Montaigue

http://www.taijiworld.com/Articles/fa-jing.htm


Obviously opposing ideas to fa jing. Only one way to settle this,

Fa jing fight!

 

Yeah mate, I have the stuff on my PC, the files are quite big though, and I would need a place to upload the stuff if you want to see it, unless you know another way of doing it ??? maybe e-mail or something.

 

Actually I have had an e-mail discussion with Master Monague, I would like to say that I respect the man, but don’t agree with all he says.

I e-mailed him with some questions and my own experience on 'Fa-Jing', after I read his article 'True Fa-Jing'. Anyway, he basically tried to tell me that what I experienced was my self sub-consciously launching myself along with the movements of the instructor. I did not bother arguing, but I don’t think that is a plausible explanation.

I also believe my master and several other masters at our school are more highly skilled than Master Montague, this I gather from being, seeing and experiencing internal strength at our schools and watching Master Montague's videos. Thus, no disrespect to Master Montague, as I am sure his experience is much greater than mine, but I value my experience and that of my Masters greater than that of Master Montague. Furthermore, I think that Master Montague may think a bit to highly of his skill, and may be a bit ignorant due to some egoism. Though I once again state that I have full respect for the man, and he has shown himself to be a polite and conscious person, and I hope that my comments on him are seen in the same light. Though in reality a 'beginner' such as myself should not be opening his mouth in such a manner, but I guess I am an egoist to some extent.

 

Cool read untill I get to the end. I could show you but I would have to kill you!

 

For me the vidoe is showing an 'uproot'.

A beginner that get's uprooted as part of a good taiji push will go much further that a more accomplished taiji player.

This is for a number of reasons. Firstly the beginner is more tense and therefore offers a much easier target. Secondly a beginner is unlikely to have developed much of a root, so that if he is pushed he will not be able to stop himself all that easily.

Both people will get pushed. The beginner will go flying back a few metres, but the more advanced player will only need to go back a couple of steps as he is more able to absorb the energy of the push.

A lot of the showy uproot photographs seem to show an excessive amount of stiffness in the recipient. It makes for a more impressive image.

A note for ZillaBilla:
"Thus, no respect to Master Montague, as I am..."
I'm sure you meant no disrespect didn't you?

Re: Erle Montaigue
I think that Mr Montaigue has said things in the past that have ruffled feathers all over the place, but he does have a lot of students out there. If he was so wrong, I doubt they would stick around. I've seen some of his videos and while I liked a couple of things and thought he seemed well educated in what he was doing, it is not for me. There are a couple of ideas I have taken on board, but that's it.

 

Cheers for the correction Vampyre Rat, now amended.

 

I've also corresponded with Mr. Moontague couple of years ago over Tai ji ideas n prinicples and I remember he helped me gladly...
I've heard from lots of people about the kind of principle Mr Moontague shows on Fa jing. and When utilising or practicing it seems like this is right... so I take this as my definition of Fajing

-TkdWarrior-

 

Hey guys,

I've found an interesting article on 'Jing', it is at the following link:

http://web.singnet.com.sg/~limttk/lunjing.htm

Bellow is an exert from the article regarding that which Master Montague says is not true 'Fa Jing':

Long jing (chang jing) is from the back foot directing to the front a thrust to the ground as being the primary source of power, requires all the joints coordinated, from bottom going to the top, following the structure to express out the jing. Because the duration of the execution of strength is long, it is possible to cause the opponent to be thrown a great distance away. The advantage is that it won't injure the opponent. For those who power attainment (kung li) is not deep such as beginning students whose waist (yao) and inguinal region (kua) are not limber, they should use more long jing (chang jing).

Hope that was usefull.

 

I had great fun doing this at a workshop, yesterday. It looks great and feels fantastic doing it.

 

What a hassle. I just did an Altavista video search of 'fajing' and "fa jing" and didn't come up with any working links. A Google search for "fa jing video" came up with only about 30 working hits, and practically all of them were for Erle Montaigue's clip (nothing wrong with his video but).

We're all into IMA - let's push to get some real taiji online!

 

NO!NO!NO! We've got to keep it all hush hush!

Far too many clips out there putting IMA to shame.

 

Yeah, definitely mate, where do we start?

This reply came a bit late, hence this edit..

Does anyone have any good demo clips or anything of that kind..?

 

Great... Im glad for such an overwhelming response..

I have a few clips of my Grand Master throwing people around.. but on VCD.

 

I have some stuff from my DVDs but they will take a day or two to get O/L

 

I don't have any footage - just stuff that I've picked up from the net.