Authentication and rejection of Ninjutsu from Japan

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Silv, Jun 9, 2008.

  1. DaynD

    DaynD Valued Member

    Lordy; you sent me back to my book shelf to re-read with a school-boy's guilt!

    Silv; My abject apologies if I've offended you; you're comments about Ishida indicate that either you came to the Drew Seminar, practice in Spain or are a student of Banke Shinobinoden Kensyujo. We could bring out a lot of good information if we discussed such things on-line. Are you still out there?

    All I think I did (well, what I tried) was to put it all in context. I don't think Kawakami Soshike looks any worse for full-disclosure!
  2. PookieNumnums

    PookieNumnums New Member

    it seems this is a very old thread but a few things id like to mention then a link to post

    firstly, hatsumi soke has been practicing ninjutsu almost longer than kawakami has been alive.

    the amount of recognition alone worldwide deserves some acknowledgement if not for ninjutsu, for character.

    are public records not a thing in japan? was it so long ago that hatsumi soke's teacher was alive that there is no paper documentation of his lineage? Is the burden on them to prove their disciplic lineage? Who is better, the guy trained by a ninja or the guy related to one?


    here is a recent video showing you exactly what type of ninja kawakami is:

    as suggested nine years ago, its about marketing. the fact that this 'last ninja' is in cahoots with the japanese government to bring tourism and revenue to japan through the promotion of ninjutsu on such a wide scale suggests to me that its not about ninja, its about that dough.

    these dudes seem like flakes somewhat, at least from the video. AND the video they play at the beginning shows the ninja teleporting around short distances running through the woods... they also say that they appreciate the widespread ideals of ninja throughout the world portrayed in movies and anime...

    Meanwhile, Masaaki in more recent video than the above posted on the same channel says that the portrayal of ninja on tv and literature is often incorrect.

    I am not trying to say one is more or less authentic, as im no expert and havent met either of them. But there are plenty of videos on youtube and tapes you can buy, and if you check them out who do you feel is more of a 'master'? The guy trying to popularize ninja again in mainstream society by opening up a 'ninja-academy' who wants to get ninja-lifestyle into every aspect of japanese life? Or the guy who talks about the philosophy and reasoning behind ninjutsu belief and technique?

    I have a lot more watching of both to do. Learn from both sides i say..

    As a final note, ive not been able to (as of yet) find any opinion from either side in regards to each other.
  3. PookieNumnums

    PookieNumnums New Member

    oh yeah, forgot to add,

    if you were the dude trying to help 'make ninja great again'

    would you want another person out there who's style is 'more authentic' than yours?

    It would be nice if they joined forces for the sake of all ninja.
  4. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I don't think anyone is trying to make ninja great again

    Probably they are trying to pass on important lessons from history (& in some cases cash in on tourism)
  5. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    And the emperor will pay for it!!

    Lock him up.... lock him up!!!!
  6. bujingodai

    bujingodai Active teacher now. Supporter

    Well that was entertaining. Sai? really?
  7. JibranK

    JibranK Valued Member

    I have no dog in this fight, but I have seen videos like that from Bujinkan people as well. (Yes, I agree that that video you linked to is terrible but what is the context of it?)

    In fact, Hatsumi Sensei starred in a Power Rangers type ninja TV show (which I would love to watch). Here is the intro:

    The authenticity (or lack thereof) of a practitioner or tradition can't, in my opinion, be verified or disproved because of the media material that they participate in.

    Obata Sensei, for instance, studied under Yagyu Sensei, Nawa Sensei, and others... but he did some fight choreography for and played a role in the Ninja Turtles movie. Does that render his training false?
  8. Kaigun

    Kaigun New Member

    The Bansenshukai states that there are 49 Ryuha from Iga and Koka alone, while I recognise the Banke Shinobiden as a legitimate school of ninja, I do not believe it is the only school, nor do I believe that it inherited of all 49 original Ninja schools. I believe both the Bujinkan and the Banke Hiden are both legitimate lineages of Ninjutsu, and I have read some people say that Banke Hiden is a Koka Ninja lineage whereas Bujinkan is an Iga ninja lineage. It's very sad that the Ninja community would rather tear each other down than build each other up. We should be celebrating the diversity of Ninja traditions.
  9. pgsmith

    pgsmith Valued dismemberer

    But you see, you are carrying on the basic problem within the various schools of ninjutsu, which is belief. You just said that you believe twice. There are a great number of books and scrolls written about various people's "beliefs" regarding ninjutsu, but very little in the way of verifiable facts. This puts it more in the role of religion than tradition, and we all know how much argument is involved when people discuss their differing beliefs.

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