Authentic Taijiquan?

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by runcai, Jan 30, 2014.

  1. runcai

    runcai Valued Member

    Authentic Taijiquan?

    http://www.56.com/u20/v_MjM1NDUzNw.html

    This was taught by Li Jing Lin (李景林1885-1932) at the Nanjing National Martial art Academy established in 1928, the performer was Chang Dong Sheng (常东升 1910-1986) a teacher of shuai jiao at the Academy. Maybe YouKnowWho has something to say about shuaijiao practitioner doing Taijiquan.
     
  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Don't see why it would be an issue - many had cross art experience anyway.

    Instead of your usual "throw crap at the wall and see what sticks" approach to posting why not tell us what YOU think about it?
     
  3. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    I'm still waiting for runcai to give an opinion on ANYTHING... :rolleyes:
     
  4. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    He's very good at saying "yes that's what I thought" after doing another one of his "google drive by" threads

    I suggest NO ONE offer an opinion until runcai gives us one of his own
     
  5. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    Is that your professional opinion?
     
  6. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    It's more of an amateur rant.....
     
  7. pseudo

    pseudo Padawan

    But opinions leave you open to criticism. :p
     
  8. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Strange that isn't it....?
     
  9. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Why am I reminded of this?

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRPcssq-7Us"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRPcssq-7Us[/ame]
     
  10. pseudo

    pseudo Padawan

    The quotes in your signature, while true may have instilled the fear of Hannibal in poor runcai. Maybe he cares about what you think of him, you Big bully!
     
  11. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Hey you hurt my feeling .....oh sorry it was the residual flu and my feeling is intact....carry on
     
  12. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    I'm sure YKW can say something about it.. but as to your question / title. Sure it's from an authentic source; General Li. Chang made some modification of his own along the line, but then so did nearly everyone of note.. No one can deny Chang was up there among the echelons of bad ass Chinese martial artists of his day.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2014
  13. runcai

    runcai Valued Member

    I am still collecting materials on the authenticity of Taijiquan, and I do not have an opinion yet. If you have a question I will try to answer.

    This one is the 81 form Taijiquan should be linked to Li Jinglin, and Li Deyin has written a book on it. It look much the same as the 88 form Taijiquan developed by Li Tianji whose father learnt Taijiquan and Wudang Sword from Li Jinglin.

    http://vimeo.com/360803

    Ms. Zong Weijie (宗维洁)performs 81-step Yang-style of Taijiquan in Beijing. Extracted from a Chinese educational video. Zong Weijie is a lecturer at Beijing University of Physical Education, and several times China's National champion in Taijiquan and Taiji sword.
     
  14. runcai

    runcai Valued Member

    Well, 81 is an authentic number as the Dao De Jing has 81 chapters. I came across an article saying that there were some agreements in the 1920's on the 81 forms, but I don't have the reference to it.
     
  15. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    I'm sure he would,seeing as how Chang was his teacher! Chang also did Hsing I and a passel o' other stuff.

    Why the question mark?

    I think you need some in depth experience to personally be able to ascertain "authentic" TC.Anybody can look good doing a form.Can they use it? Can you tell by looking if they're using proper beyond the basic mechanics for TC? How do you intend to be able to judge?
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2014
  16. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    I'll be honest, and meaning no disrespect to this old TCMA master.....

    As I watch the clip, I am struck by how much he bends his top body forward-leaning forward heavily.

    I will just say that waht I have been taught this is fundamentally different.

    We are tauight to hold the body upright, as if a string was holding you up from your tailbone through the top of the head- tailbone NOT sticking out, but tucked. This is for full body connection.

    There is something else I am finding - well - very different from what I know of TCC, but I can't quite explain it yet. Gotta watch it agian when I am not gettnig ready for work.

    I thought that was a fundamental basic of all TCC. Does anyone else do TCC leaning forward as extremely as this gentleman does?

    Am I understanding correctly that his primary art is someting else besides TCC?

    Again, I mean no disrespect, but the leaning thing is really disturbing my concept of a basic fundamental element of TCC. But, again, I am most curios to hear if others learn differently.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
  17. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

  18. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    You must came from the CMC line.

    It all depends on whether you believe to "align your head, body, back leg in a straight line" is an important guideline or not. You have to lean if you follow this guideline, otherwise you don't have to, and your straight line will bend on your waist. To me, this is a general guideline and should be applied to all TCMA styles if we are talking about "combat" application and not just "health".

    [​IMG]

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    This guideline is so important that some styles such as long fist and SC would start this kind of training on day one.

    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]

    This guideline is also used in non-TCMA.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z2KgfmfkAU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z2KgfmfkAU[/ame]

    If all MA systems "lean" but certain style of Taiji system doesn't lean, you may have to ask yourself, "Am I right and everybody else are all wrong, or the other way around?"
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2014
  19. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    If you mean Chang he doesn't slant very much.Ever seen the TC form of Wu,C-c's line?That's often quite aslant. Chang doesn't "tuck" his tail as you're supposed to drop,not tuck.At least after you know how.There's a difference.Doesn't seem that Chang's sticking it out,look at his lower back,not his derriere.

    Look at photos of Yang,C-f.He ain't perpendicular to the ground.In fact most lines from Cheng-fu are not perpendicular.So Hu's and Cheng's teachings (not Chang) were maybe exceptions to the norm at the time?

    Yes Chang's primary system was wrestling.Like Wong's is CLF.And?
     
  20. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    No she doesn't!

    You posted while I was writing my previous post.Thanks for the photos illustrating some of what I mentioned.
     

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