"atemi" in western grappling arts?

Discussion in 'Wrestling' started by Ben Gash CLF, Mar 1, 2013.

  1. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    I was just watching a Billy Robinson seminar DVD and he demonstrated short strikes to the carotid sinus and temples to offbalance and disorient opponents for throws and locks, just like JJJ atemi. When I've trained with Erik Paulson and Greg Nelson they've shown rough snapdowns, crossfaces and thigh rides as semi strikes. Does anyone with experience of wrestling or CACC have any other bits of "grey" technique they'd like to share?
  2. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I remember hearing about some guy (russian I think) getting soundly RNC'd by a Brazilian at the ADCC's because each time he attempted a neck grab to clinch it was more like a palm strike.
    The guy got warned but not before the brazilian got cheesed off enough to take his back, eye gouge to expose the throat and send him to sleep with the RNC. :)
  3. Kuniku

    Kuniku The Hairy Jujutsuka

    are you refering to atemi for the purpose of kuzushi?
  4. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Actually that is not entirely true

    The Russian was slapping the back of the neck repeatedly and the Brazilian lost it and bitch slapped him

    The eye gouge was done to a Japanese competition I believe who thought dislocating a brazilians fingers would be a good idea. The Brazilian countered by doing the aforementioned gouge and rnc

    This is one reason I always call the "use dirty tactics" advocates morons - if you cannot fight cleanly in the first place all you now have is a ticked off skilled grappler
  5. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Forearm shots are a go to for me...those little "pops" that give you just enough time to transfer to a throw or move.

    I also have been known to quickly snap down the back of my knee on the head as an "armbar counter counter"
  6. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I'm getting old. Memory ain't what it was.
  7. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Hah, I was just thinking about Billy Robinson stuff! Even updated my FB status about returning to grappling training again.

    I've been in a couple of wrestling bouts where I've taken a couple of sneaky hooks to the face.

    While on top position, taking the back; the opponent would raise his head to prevent the underhook/head grab. Cross face using the panther fist (Pou-Choi) across the cheekbone and grab the tricep on the far arm. While trapping the opp's face with your bicep (same arm). (forcing him to "look" at the hand grabbing his tricep) Essentially a face crank.

    This should lead to them being very uncomfortable and with a quick yank towards your body, whilst pushing their hip with your other hand (or going under and grabbing far thigh), this should make them go to their back.

    Others are a lot more simple. Such as going for the high single and "accidentally" forearm striking the groin :)
  8. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I am training with Bill this year come what may!
  9. Stolenbjorn

    Stolenbjorn Valued Member

    German combat-manuals from late medieval times referes to so-called "mord-schlag", (murder-strikes), that is believed to be softening punches.
  10. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Bring a spare knee brace or 2..

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pacqq_sFCBk"]Billy Robinson: Gotch Toe Hold - YouTube[/ame]
  11. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Do you have the WAR DVD? Unbelievable stuff!
  12. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    Sigmund Ringeck (ca 1440) has what are called "Death Blows" in one of his grappling sections. Basically to soften up the opponent before you throw him.

    Translation from the ARMA:

    "The First Death-blow

    Seize the man with the left hand above the belt, where you want. At the same time punch with your left fist with your full strength against his heart. Then seize him with wrestling, whichever you can do best, and follow the wrestling with breaks and Widerbrche (this is a tricky word it could mean illegal breaks, unnatural breaks, or opposing breaks). You can apply the same breaks and opposing breaks in all situations: on horseback, on foot, prepared (I assume this means either armoured or armed) or unguarded, in coming in close, lying down or standing.

    The Second Death-blow

    Seize the man with the left hand above the belt and punch your knee from underneath against his testicles. Then set about immediately with strong wrestling. In all wrestles set the holds, when necessary, and also the ground techniques. Afterwards use also the death-blows and the throws over the leg (leg-breaks).

    The Third Death-blow

    Seize the man with the left hand above the belt. With the right fist, punch him as hard as possible against the temples. Then set about immediately with strong wrestles.

    The Fourth Death-blow

    Punch him with both fists against the neck, as hard as you can. After that, wrestle.

    The Fifth Death-blow: Hip-throw

    Punch him with the right hand against the navel, as hard as you can. Then seize his right arm at the height of the biceps with your left hand. With your right arm, grab him tightly around his left side. Hold him firmly by the jacket or the hose (pants, breeches, whatever), move your backside in front of his hips, so that your right leg stands in front of his right, and throw him thus over the hip."

  13. Omicron

    Omicron is around.

    Here's a funny video. The guy in white (who trains at the same club as I do) accidentally knees his opponent in the face during an attempted grip strip. The reaction is unexpected, to say the least!

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBogci4cze0"]BJJ Bitchslap - YouTube[/ame]
  14. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    I was gonna say!
    Mushroom is the guy to ask!
    He showed us some nasty stuff saying if the ref brings it up just say "sorry ref, just working here!"

    BTW - hopping knee on belly from side to side certainly feels like getting punched!

    The other thing would be the thai clinch work (breaking down dominant clinch with strikes to the inside of the elbow and taking your own) and boxing trapping (patting down hands and coming over the top with your own) i've learnt seems to fit nicely into standup grappling. used it successfully today.

    Like the billy robinson video - I used to do a shooting kneebar from an ankle pick on a judo guy until he got wise to it. I would ankle pick then shoot in on them as they fell and tug the ankle out to straighten the leg and create a fulcrum with my knee above theirs and lift the ankle for the kneebar.

    he would start trying to get to a jiu jitsu stand up
    pressuring down the far knee onto the inside of the thigh after ankle pick (or in combat base) and pivoting on it. If you work fast - it's a crappy guard pass but pivot slow enough and hard enough and they'll be in too much pain to move and may tap.

    Jitsu stuff:
    We used to practice passing guard over the groin when competition prep was in way. People suddenly tend to stop resisting when you have a knee over their happy-maker
  15. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    not grey areas as such but billy sets up the standing kimura with a straight elbow pop to the side or the head, elbows and forearms play a big part in his stand up game to set up takedowns and standing locks

    as to rough play in grappling chins in the eys on the ground are useful from side control, face bar from the back also works as does using the knuckle into the pressure points behind the ear
  16. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    That was totally uncalled for! Did he get DQ'd?

Share This Page