At which rank should competition be stopped? Or should it?

Davefly got me thinking about this, so thank him .

In previous WKSA tournaments 3rd Degree was the highest one could compete at. Up until a couple of years ago 2nd degree was the highest. This being simply because there wasn't enough judges to judge the higher ranks, now that we (WKSA) have more and more masters, and higher ranking ones soon. This isn't as much of a problem. So do you think as long as there are enough judges, there should be division? Or at some piont do you think the teachers should retire from competition?

Remember that there isn't a printed 3rd, 4th, or 5th degree book out yet. So there is no standard to base a score off of.

Also do you think the students of a competing teacher would suffer in someway?

 

Ah, why let all the babies have the fun. You old geezers should have to feel that nauseous pit in your stomach before you compete too. Oh and that feeling for weeks before hand of impending doom. I think it's fair play.

As for the standard due to no book....well sometimes it doesn't help when there is a book. I'm not being mean or trying to start a fight, that's just honest. I have been lucky, I have no serious complaints, I'm just saying. Besides, the only people who could judge that level, we shouldn't have to worry about standard right? (otherwise we have bigger problems)

If you have a good instructor, I think that it wont effect the student in any way but positively. You can let your students critique your form, and you there's. They get a chance to work on their 'eye' for detail. If done right it can really build a tightness in a school?

to sum up my answer...If the Grand Master says they can at KJN level, i think it would be good. I don't think it's possible to compete beyond that? Probably be tacky after that anyway

 

lol, happens everytime before testing

One would think but that is not always the case

I agree totally, plus you wont have those mouth masters, you know the ones "when I was competing I was a total badass etc. "

How would it be tacky ?

 

We had an instructor's competition once at the ranch. That was cool. All but the highest ranked Masters competed.

 

I don't know i just would think it would be, I guess by the time you are 6th degree, it would just seam tacky. Perhaps disrespectful to be asked to compete. I think I might just have old martial arts movies in my head.

Nah too wierd.

 

Okay, here's the part I don't understand.... If memory serves me correctly, masters were allowed to compete in knife-throwing competition and many participated (in fact, at first, few others were capable of *qualifying*). KJNs Barry Harmon and Marlin Sims were among some of the medal winners in those early contests, which proves masters have no compunctions against competing with one another.

Also, what KSW_123 noted in regards to that incident at the WKSA-HQ compound/ranch (weren't there TWO of those events?) about only high-ranking masters not competing is true -- NOT because they didn't want to or weren't allowed to, but SOMEONE had to play the role of JUDGE for the contestants who did compete.

My only question is which would be more fair, to have the masters do OON HAK HYUNG or KI CHO HYUNG for their competition?

 

Couldn't Kuk Sa Nim judge the highest ranking masters, and so on down the line? The senior masters get there first, get judged, then they help with the lower ranking masters.

I'd vote for Oon Hak Hyung. But why would one be more fair than the other? Surely a master has gotten lots of practice with Ki Cho Hyung, and they can demonstrate the Hyung Bub with any form. How about Kuk Sool Hyung for the senior masters, not just through Dae Gup, but every empty handed form they know, one after the other, with excellent Hyung Bub all through the forms. That would be a feat worthy of a master!

BTW, welcome to the forum, unknown-KJN. You have made us richer with your contributions. TY.

 

I would rather see Ki Cho Hyung done, even at 4th dahn comp. I think it would inspire the lower ranks to see it done with masterly percision.

 

Don't make me blush. I trust you are merely being cordial as a long-time MAPer. Personally, I hate brown-nosers.

Sure, but even though I also recall KJN Byung In Lee also participating in the knife-throwing event a few times, it would be difficult for GM IHS to claim total impartiality when judging KJN Byung In Lee (his brother-in-law) or KJNs Alex & SJ Suh (his sons) if they happened to be the winners. Also, lest we forget, enough masters would have to enroll at each level or the category would be *cancelled* anyway.

I mentioned it merely as a joke, but on certain levels KCH would be harder to judge and therefore harder to do (intricacies, intricacies).

As for Kuk Sool Hyung, you are slightly misinformed. It's not a conglomeration of all the empty-hand hyung done back to back, though that could be looked at as one aspect. According to what GM IHS told me, it entails doing all the techniques (WITH takedown) on an imaginary opponent, and making these movements *flow* like a hyung. So doing that for competition (either one) would probably be determined as taking *too long* but I do like the spirit in which it was suggested.

 

I don't say that to everyone. In fact, don't recall saying it before at all. Your blushing is your own problem!

My nose is quite clean, thank you.

Knife throwing might be easy to be impartial with, just count the points up. But I can see how it might be difficult to be impartial with the other divisions. I would hope the Grandmaster would be up to the challenge.

I've certainly seen (and done) soo performed as hyung, but I don't recall hearing it refered to as Kuk Sool Hyung. I've only heard the term used as I did. However, you having heard it directly from his lips is pretty good evidence of the correctness of one definition over the other.

One set of "Soo Hyung" wouldn't take very long.

TY.

 

I've heard both definitions here on MAP: Kuk Sool Hyung as all forms strung together, and Kuk Sool Hyung as techniques strung together. I don't remember where, if it's relevant I might could search out the discussion.

 

I can't imagine telling someone they are no longer allowed to compete because they have advanced too far.

 

fighting training and competition

I can't imagine telling someone they are no longer allowed to compete because they have advanced too far.

"Sorry, sir, you've simply contributed too much to our art for us to allow you to have fun competing with us."

 

I don't catch every word of every conversation here. Sometimes I skim. <shhhh!> I'm more reliable about what I've heard at the do-jang. I'm more awake there. There is always more to learn, even terminology.

 

It might have been before you were registered.

Robert Jordan: "Men forget but never forgive. Women forgive but never forget."

 

I'm not sure that says anything nice about anyone. However, I must say that I would be more a fan of forgiving, but never forgetting.

 

:topic:

Well, as with most "Always" and "Never" statements, they can't be right because there are exceptions.

Anyway, there's some evidence that Robert Jordan was wrong, women may forgive because they forget.

Regardless, I usually remember both what I read and what I hear.

:topic:

 

it's not a case of not being allowed to compete, there simply isn't a division for 4th dan and up in official WKSA competitions. as far as i know there is no *rule* to prevent them from competeing in open tournaments.

 

OLD FARTS

This is SO true! But many would have to enter the *senior* or *executive* divisions as most of us are a bunch of old farts.

 

You are very correct.. The only thing that I would add is that I can only think of a relatively small % of current WKSA masters that , when they were 2nd and 3rd dan , were willing to compete. so, if the option exsisted,,, is it bc they can't or won't .... This is a real sad situation.. as unkkjn jokingly mentioned many people by that rank are old farts...
but wait I thought ksw training was supposed to keep you young and vibrant, and if you are a master of ksw then you have this skill well in hand so if ksw is so good for you and these masters have been training 20+ years in this incredible system then why wouldn't they compete ..
.
. something here doesn't add up.

realistically there is no reason why high dans shouldn't compete if it's available... unless they simply won't... and they proved that at earlier ranks.. and thats the worst reason of all...

of course there are those that would argue that ksw competition is not the focus of the art, but judging from the increase in the # of tourneys and the constant emphasis to participate, it seems that this "art that is not a sport" is becoming exactly that. a low level sport for the avg. consumer..