Not sure how to say this and it isn’t really an issue nor is it meant to offend. Just want some other peoples take on things. I have intentionally left this out of TKD thread so as to involve a wider audience for respective martial arts and cultures. I study TKD and love the art, the bag work, sparring the almost militarised drilling etc. – I’m even growing to like patterns. I don’t like the TKD culture. By that I mean trying to adopt/replace my own culture. Some people love it and that’s fine. I don’t mind counting in Korean, I see that as educational to some degree but do I really need to know what the Korean for punch, side kick, turning kick etc. is? Am I really required to bow when entering and leaving the dojang. I hear people talking as much as they can in Korean and trying to make me and others understand that language. This is nothing against Koreans or TKD or any other art for that matter and Is all to do with the people preaching the language and the culture. I’m Scottish, I’m sure other people from Japanese, Filipino etc. have their own influences as well. It’s not the culture that bothers me, it’s the people that try to force it onto you. Van Zandt made a comment on another thread some time ago about TKD putting the left arm under the elbow when handing you certificate or something other than. It has come to my attention that Korean people do this in general everyday life as an act of politeness. Do we really need to steal that part of their culture. Does it have to be imposed on us? I recently trained with “a” National TKD coach and before class started he asked the students not to address him as sir and use his name instead. He stated that most coaches from this country do this as a way of keeping their identity in what he rightly called a sport. That may or may not be the case but it made sense to me. I’m not into the subservient thing I guess. This will happen in all other TMA’s as well and there will be people like me who just want to train and I think that’s fine. Just so you know the reason I bring this is up is because a friend of mine was roundly criticised for not knowing the Korean for inner forearm block. I thought it was out of order. In my place of training I’m not required to bow when entering leaving the dojang and I’m not asked to speak Korean but when it comes to grading I am. This is due to the organisation and not my gym/dojang. Many people love taking on another cultural identity and that’s fine but I don’t think it should be imposed upon you. Just as a side note, none of the instructors in the organisation are Korean. All are Scottish. My opinion is basically knowing the Korean for punch isn’t going to make it any better technically. Your thoughts please guys. Baza
I think there are several issues contained in the one post. On the language front I think it very much depends on the language and the variety of technique. In Southern Kung Fu for example the Cantonese names are typically quite short and don't have easy English analogues. Therefore it's sometimes easier to use the Cantonese term. However in TKD the Korean terms are often quite long and complicated, and are often easier to describe in English, so then you have to question using the Korean. On the etiquette front, I suppose it depends on how extreme and pervasive it is. Saluting at the start and finish and having a title for the instructor I don't find especially onerous, but weird ritualised ways of doing stuff I would find wearing. Of course with the etiquette it's important to consider how often will students come into contact with teachers from the originating culture? If they get to see a Korean instructor who expects it twice a year then it may be necessary.
Of course you can take it further, why have doboks etc? Here's a very good (but long and wordy) discussion on barriers to entry as a factor in the appeal and success of schools http://chinesemartialstudies.com/2015/01/15/why-do-difficult-and-expensive-martial-arts-thrive/
It's inefficient and somewhat uncomfortable training kit though. The jacket serves no purpose whatsoever. Indeed it's a massive symbol of orientalism as the karate-gi is essentially the Japanese equivalent of training in long johns.
The jacket i could leave out, have to agree. The trousers on the other hand are very comfortable. Your right though the jacket is horrible. baza
Have you tried kicking in MMA board shorts? Makes TKD trousers seem restrictive. TBF though I have a slight bias as the broad sizing in MA uniforms is a problem for me. 180 is far too short and 190 is slightly too long
In relation to using the language of the country of origin of an MA (for technique naming at least) I see as a useful commonality. For instance I should be able to train anywhere in the world and the instructor could say the official Japanese name for an Aikido technique and I should be able to understand what we are meant to be training even though we don't speak the same language. My TKD days were a long time ago but I didn't like the Korean history that had to be learnt for gradings, felt it was a bit too much propaganda. I don't mind a certain level of etiquette either (a lot of it is for safety) but I have seen people lost up their own backsides as soon as the hakama gets put on. I do prefer the laid back approach in BJJ though.
This is probably at the core of my issue. You make a good point in terms of training somehwere else in the world when english isn't the first language. That makes sense to me and to be honest i hadn't even thought about that. I couldn't really see the practical use but yeah that makes sense. Baza
Take it a step farther. Why couldn't TKD assimilate and be associated with Scottish culture? To the point where anytime one heard the term TKD, one thought immediately of pipes or the Highlands? Dispense with the Korean language association altogether - call it ... Fist 'N Wrist, Brèagha Breabadh, Pritty Beltin or something, lol. I've yet to hear of Koreans being forced to play Golf in kilts.
lol it's funny because they're serious. Scottish culture is a step too far. I can just imagine blow darts incognito as bag pipes with a Korean caddy wearing a TKD dobok looking alongside a claymore in the golf bag. Baza
Ah-har! That's an idea for a marvelous screen-play. Scottish equivalent of Caddyshack. There's gotta be one here...somewhere...
When I started Taekwondo at a school in the US (about 20 years ago), we had to learn a few bits of Korean language and etiquette along the way. This was often brought up at testing in the form of a few questions. The main reasons were as follows: (1) to familiarize students with terminology and cultural elements in case they ended up working with some Korean instructor here or in Korea, and (2) to give students another 'piece' of material to work on, especially outside of the dojang, basically as an incentive to study outside of class. In my opinion, the list of 'expected' knowledge was pretty small, basically how + why to bow, hand shaking culture, basic terms for techniques and directions in class. Most of this stuff was reinforced at competitions and tournaments (we sent students to local, state, and national competition). I never found the material to be 'too much' or even distracting from the primary material. Some students weren't terribly good at the language/cultural stuff but no one ever failed a test for that reason. For myself, the basic terminology came in very handy when I went off to train in Korea for a few years - it gave me a place to fit in before (and as) I was trying to learn the language and culture there. I think a lot of it comes down to how much you wish to deal with. If it is impacting your learning and happiness in class, you may wish to look elsewhere. There are a lot of schools that have separated a lot of the cultural baggage from the training. If it is 'just something that is done' and you like the rest of the training, then maybe you have to suck it up and deal. Depends on what you want. How much is this impacting your training and will it impact your progress physically (or in ranks)?
