Hi...In another thread,old pal RedBagani joked about not kicking while in an Arnis competition...which reminded me about a concept from Master Nap Fernandez and fellow Yaw-Yan RJ Marcaida...they call it ArniSipaan or SipaLuan Its basically an Arnis type of sports but will allow kicks... What do you guys think about it... Wanlu
The way I see it, the concept will work only if: 1) A live stick is used in an old-style juego todo format, where one was allowed to kick and punch. Trying to kick like a kickboxer will result in painful bumps on the shins. A Muay Thai player will spend years hardening his legs to be strong. A good fighting stick is already naturally hard. In such a format, the stick was proven to be a superior weapon and was used more often than a kick by the traditional fighters. 2) For safety purposes, body armor or padded sticks can be used, but kicks cannot be allowed to be thrown full-contact. During training, I have kicked and kneed my opponents successfully during arnis sparring. When someone grabs my stick, I don't waste time stick-grappling. I just snap out a punch. It is usually unexpected. I have even kicked as high as the chin. Kicks and punches work but not all the time. There are no official games that allow this.
this concept is actually good as it emphasizes more of the yaw-yan combat training. weapons work plus the kicks, amazing combination.
Sipaluan It might be quite interesting to allow kicks...used either as a strike or just to create an openning.
That's right. A hard stick will neutralize most kicking attacks, specially those thrown high. I don't care how hard a fighter's shin is. My fighting stick is much, much harder and does not feel pain.
that's right LBB, we have in Rizal a good instructor in Japanese+korean Martial Arts & he had a club who developed good MA'st. However converted to a sipaluan type due to marketing problem, TKD guys really did capture the Market most in the province. IMHO, he has a great foresight but the application of both Arnis & sipa didn't came as good as we thought. Once somebody asked, "how if the opponent kicked & I blocked it w/ my stick, is it ok?". He was advised just "don't teach that to students, block his kicks" . In competition, if needed a 1-point blow, there should be a combination of kick & stick strike (padded) , now that's 1-point blow Well am not a master at this, just my humble opinion only. Cause it's old seniors separated w/ the group/instructor :cry: cause they don't believe in the sytem, would rather Learn Arnis they said.
Exactly my thoughts. If a guy relies on his fancy kicks more than his stick in a stick-fight, it only means his arnis sucks.
Sipaluan It may or may not work in a competition but the idea is good for me. Years ago, the idea of grapplers going up against strikers was silly but now its a trend. Maybe allowing kicks in an arnis competiton may set a new trend. Blocking kicks with the stick must be allowed too...feel the pain Will start my arnis training first week of January. I hope this time, I find a good teacher. Happy holidays and Happy new year to all of you.
Hey Red, Have you ever watched the Krabi krabong clips on the Dogbrothers site? You might be surprised. A kick can get in when fighter has to choose between a a stick shot or a thai kick both coming almost similtaneously. I've experianced kicks, trips and sweeps during friendly sparring with Corto Kadena players and I have friends who have been kicked while sparring GM Leo Gaje. But in both cases the kicks were below the hips. I agree its risky, and its not something you want to integrate into your blade training. But its a good thing to be aware of. Plus it sucks to get a side kick during a stick match.
I've seen him do this. It's a low-line kick that looks like a reverse roundhouse. He does back kicks also. Theres a drill that he showed us before but I havent tried it yet.
Hello Crucible, I am just clarifying my post. I didn't say kicks can't be used in a stick-fight. My own experience is that it can. In fact... The few times I used high kicks successfully, I wasn't even thinking about it. My leg just shot out to exploit an opening. For me, kicking an armed opponent isn't something I look out for. If the opportunity is there, I take it but I do not create a situation just to make my kicks work, unlike in kickboxing. I believe that in a real stick fight, it should be the hands that do most of the work. If I didn't also train in empty-hands, I doubt I could kick well in a stick-fight. Now if the weapon was shorter, as in a pocket knife, yes, kicking hard and mostly low is a good idea indeed. One time, a friend asked me to do an Arnis demo for some hot shots. It was an impromptu demo, and I demonstrated some knife disarming techniques with my friend as a partner. Admittedly, I put in some fancy disarms just for the fun of it. A bodyguard of one of the VIPs was not impressed and asked if I could disarm him if he was the one to simulate the attack. Since he was polite about it, I agreed. He rushed at me, thinking I was going to do one of those fancy hand-to-hand disarms specially when I feinted a grab at his wrist. I switched and promptly kicked him behind the knees. He crumpled to the floor. End of demo. If it doesn't work, I don't know how you think it can be a good idea.
Sorry Bro, just noticed that. I agree. I've experianced this, frankly its annoying, though a great way to stay safe. Annoying at the recieving end. Stay still so I can stab you. Bravo . Remind me not to run at you with knife in the near future. Actually maybe I should do it now well your still a quadruped. Now where did I put your address....
When I was in my first years in my FMA I thought mixing sticks with kicks was a good idea. That time I was still trying to remove my Yaw-Yan Kickboxing form from my body. I was deciding if I should continue my Yaw-Yan kickboxing skills together with FMA for the sake of doing kicks with sticks. I decided not to when I saw the reality of FMA (stick, sword, knife). YY/KB is good, but I have to find a great deal of time to maintain my KB form together with my FMA. I don't have that time. I don't know how stickkicking or arnis stick with kicks would work in competition. For me, I don't want to see an FMA practitioner with medicore stickwork doing kicks and stuff, neglecting the main purpose of the weapon. If he's really an FMA practitioner he should be breaking knee caps, shins and ankles with the stick, not using sticks as a prep tool or a prop and using kicks as his primary weapon. The stick is a mainly a largo and media weapon if you want to use its real purpose and do some real damage, but if you want go to the kicking range using kicks, id just rather close in to corto and do some damage with the butt of the stick. My 2 cents.
I also thought I could mix kicks with sticks but it turned out difficult to do. I observed that in Arnis/Eskrima/Kali, both feet has to be planted on the ground while in TKD, we have been taught to be light footed like almost just gliding and bouncing.
for me doing weapons mix with unarmed attacks (punches and kicks) is so hollywood/MA movies/hongkong. maybe thats one reason why I liked it at one time. LOL. everytime the "bida" gets hold of a weapon (stick, samurai sword, medieval sword) it only acts as a shield or a chance to do some fancy flowery moves. its only his punches and kicks that do the damage. at the near end of the fight, the two guys fighting will lose their weapons and proceed to punching and kicking and some kung fu sh*t. and didnt you notice, almost all fights in the movies... anyone who has a weapon always suck at it get his a** kicked.
Silentblade, You must be refering to the mutant turtles movies. I love those guys! It was a miracle they couldn't kill anyone with their weapons; they ultimately had to rely on their kicks and punches to beat the bad guys. Unless one is a ninja turtle, one should rely on one's stick in a stick fight. Now, don't be too sure of that. Concealed in my leg cast are spring-loaded poisoned darts capable of penetrating kevlar. My walking can is actually a disguised laser sword. My crutches hold voice-activated mini-machine guns. My wheelchair has more gizmos than Inspector Gadget. The last guy who tried something funny on me ended up in a cookie jar.
I mean the idea of allowing kicks in an arnis competetion is a good idea...it may or may not work but the idea is good. (Just like when da Vinci had the then impossible idea of flying machines...his inventions didnt work but the idea was good) Sipaluan may not work since most of you guys think that its not good to mix kicks with stick fighting but then again, maybe in the future when you guys want to set a new trend, then allowing kicks in an arnis competition might be a good idea. Allowing Arnis fighters in UFC or Pride might be a good idea too...or a Mixed weapons competiton. Again these are just ideas, may or may not work but dont you just find it interesting to watch Arnis vs Kendo or something like that. In a real fight, I honestly would strike with a kick or two first then hit an opponent with my stick. But then again, thats just my idea since I really dont know anything yet about Arnis...but I have a good feeling that even if do learn Arnis soon, I will always kick in a fight. Happy New Year to MAP and to all of us in the FMA in general
"I mean the idea of allowing kicks in an arnis competetion is a good idea...it may or may not work but the idea is good. (Just like when Da Vinci had the then impossible idea of flying machines...his inventions didnt work but the idea was good)" Erm sorry can't agree with you on this one, it literally wasn't a good idea because it didn't work ! though it would be fair to say some of the principles of his concept were good. "Sipaluan may not work since most of you guys think that its not good to mix kicks with stick fighting but then again, maybe in the future when you guys want to set a new trend, then allowing kicks in an arnis competition might be a good idea." I personally don't think that introducing kicking for example into competitions is good idea; I feel competitions should emulate real combat as far as possible, check out the discussion on the FMAforum "should we encourage sport arnis" which adresses many of the issues involved. "In a real fight, I honestly would strike with a kick or two first then hit an opponent with my stick. But then again, thats just my idea since I really dont know anything yet about Arnis...but I have a good feeling that even if do learn Arnis soon, I will always kick in a fight." I could be wrong here, but i think Red's point is that in a real fight those first two kicks would be blocked / parried with his stick ! and think my response would follow the same lines !
Hehe. The reason why I studied FMA is because I believe that if you have a weapon or if you are good with a weapon, you are already have an advantage over someone who doesn't have a weapon or someone who doesn't know how to use a weapon. But if I'm gonna resort to kicking or punching, maybe theres something wrong with my FMA skills. In a realistic point of view, why would anyone kick and punch someone who has a 30 inch blade waving like crazy? Or someone with a 3-4 pound, 30 inch hardwood stick? lol. So why make a competition format which includes stick with kicks? I'd probably do that too! Destroy his legs, knees, ankles, toes, so he couldnt kick anymore. Unless people would make a lame rule that only padded sticks or ultra light, pencil-like rattan sticks should only be used to avoid injury. Hooray the kickers win! LOL.
