Armed Attackers

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by Judderman, Jul 1, 2004.

  1. Judderman

    Judderman 'Ello darlin'

    This is a follow on from Infesticons mugging thread. What would you do when faced with an armed attacker? What advice would you give to others?

    Any sort of weapon, that is in view....thoughts?
  2. Scarlet Mist

    Scarlet Mist Banned Banned

    If you can, RUN!! If you can't find a way to ... If you have to fight, pick up something, hit him with it and then RUN!
    How does Scarlet spell safety? R - U - N. RUN!
  3. Nrv4evr

    Nrv4evr New Member

    as much as we'd all like to be true, it's nearly impossible to defend against weapons. ideally, the perfectly trained, 6'2, 180 lb. martial artist black belt 6th degree could, but we're not all that one person. scarlet, as "different" as his post is, has a point. make the fight even, and get a weapon with as long range as possible, so you can put enough distance between you and the other guy for you to run like the reaper's chasing you.
  4. JKogas

    JKogas Valued Member

    I agree that avoidance is the best option. But it's fun to train isn't it?

    Actually, training to defend empty-hand versus the blade can be practical. It certainly WOULD have been practical for Ronald Goldman and Nicole Simpson...

    Karl Tanswell's STAB (Survival Tactics Against Blades) is perhaps one of the best such programs available for this scenario. Check into it if you get the chance.
  5. RobP

    RobP Valued Member

    There are some knife defences around that are ok, some that are not so ok. However very few deal with all stages of the confrontation. There's a new DVD showing drills for awareness and working against a concealed knife, or working in a crowd of people where one may have a knife.
  6. Kagebushi

    Kagebushi New Member

    dodges. most weapons cant be reliably blocked. i have had someone attack me with a knife(rubber) and although i would have had a little cut on my stomach, i also wouldve had a knife in my hand and an attacker on his back. it was only once, however. it may have been luck, but i misjudged his strike, and still stopped it. i am pretty confident i could do it again. a bat, well, treat it like a sword, if youve trained defenses for one. leave hastily the first chance you get. if you dont get a chance, make one. if it's a gun, get out of his line of sight as soon as possible if youre out of reach, and if youre not, well, do what you can. if he wants to shoot you, he can easily if youre running. if you get lucky, you just might be able to move out of the path of the bullet right before he fires, and get a hold on the weapon. if you dont, dont give up. some people have taken 8+ bullets at about 3 feet(dodging the whole time) and walked away.:woo:he walked straight to the ambulance, but he recovered completely, since he moved enough to where none of the bullets hit his vitals. now, that probably was just luck, but his constant movement obviously made it far harder to get a sure shot.
  7. RobP

    RobP Valued Member

    You are right, movement is key. Standing and blocking against a knife is suicidal. In fact it's not so good against kicks and punches.

    Body movement is good to and can help limit damage. A friend of mine was recently attacked by a gang and stabbed with a large knife. As it went in he twisted his body so it passed through his side rather than through his kidney.
  8. KickChick

    KickChick Valued Member

    Using only empty hand techniques to disarm an assailant is VERY dangerous but, it can be done (see the article below)

    "Realistic & Repetitive" training is key!

    As mentioned, movementis good as long as your techniques are based on gross body motions (which hold up better under stress)

    Martial Artist Foils Robbery Attempt
    by Robert McLain

    ARLINGTON, TX— Steve Swyhart, chayon-ryu green belt student at the Arlington Dojang, foiled a robbery at a local Stop-N-Go convenience store here using a gun-defense technique.

    Swyhart had stopped at the convenience store after class and was still wearing his uniform (minus the belt). He entered the store and noticed that several people had gathered in the back. A large man stood near a magazine rack at the front of the establishment. Swyhart walked past the man, who then spun around with a pistol in his right hand. “I didn’t think,” Swyhart said. “It just happened like we train in class.” He avoided the muzzle and pushed the weapon aside, then grabbed the barrel and twisted the pistol and locked the gunman’s finger in the trigger guard. The criminal immediately dropped to his knees and screamed in pain.

    Swyhart said he heard some “cracking and popping” before he ripped the weapon out of the gunman’s grasp. The martial artist then held the moaning robber at bay with the weapon. The clerk grabbed a roll of tape and used it to bind the gunman’s hands until the police arrived.

    The entire incident was caught on the store’s video surveillance system. The police reviewed the tape and were reportedly amazed at what Swyhart had done. The gunman is being held for attempted manslaughter, for having pistol-whipped the clerk and for stealing $75 from the store.
  9. marcusknight

    marcusknight Valued Member

    hey if its a guy, kick him in the nuts and run like hell :D
    if its a girl, just hope shes pretty cus she might be the last thing u ever see
  10. pug32

    pug32 Valued Member

    the best description i heard was
    1 - run
    2 - give them anything you don't value above your own life
    3 - grab an equaliser (i.e anything!)
    4 - your out of options so cover all your vital arteries and fight
  11. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    I think it comes back to the old phrase:

    "Sweat in the classroom so you don't bleed in the street."

    The first thing is understanding that there are two types of weapons scenarios:

    1. The weapons out in the open - bad
    2. The weapon is concealed (you initally don't know it's there) - worse

    Then it comes down to understanding the function of a weapon:

    Case 1: Intimidation. People often show a weapon so they don't have to use it.
    Case 2: Could be that they can't deploy it. Or it could be that the only way you know its been deployed is when you are shot or stabbed.

    Beyond that you need to know the power ranges of the weapons as they define a lot of stuff. You don't want to crash directly into a gun in most cases. However against a baseball bat swing you want to crash the center line. With a kinfe it could go either way. You might want to jump backwards. A possible solution for a short knife. Terrible idea if the person has a bat or club.

    The list goes on and on. Beyond that, my original answer stands:

    My complex answer:

    1. I wouldn't get into the situation. When ever I'm out I'm always payinbg attention to what's around me and my gut reaction to it. If I have a bad feeling about someone I'll cross the street. If he crosses then I know I have a problem (or if She crosses for that matters).

    2. I'd then verbally confront them before they're close. This would hopefully deter things, as nobody wants a victim to give them problems.

    3. Of lets say that I get into a conversation with said person. Very few people carry a knife out right. So he's going to have to draw. If a stranger makes a hand move into his clothes and I've got a bad feeling, I'm sucker punching him right there. Sounds terrible, but if he's gotten that close to me and my gut is telling me not to trust him and he's reaching for something, he's getting a fist in the face. I'll deal with what ever charges come from that if he's an innocent person.

    4. So lets say all of that fails and he has a knife out and approaches me, if he's within kicking range, I'll give him the wallet. No use fighting for it if the weapon is out and he can run at me faster than I can run away. But I'm not messing with someone who has a weapon if I don't have one immediately available. Shooto put it best in his earlier post:

    Originally Posted by shootodog
    rule#1: in a knife fight, never be the one without the knife.

    And as Oldwarrior pointed out, just give over the wallet. It's far easier and less painful than the alternatives.

    5. If he orders me to go somewhere the fight is on. And as far as I'm concerned he's threatened to take my life so I will have no issue using what ever force is necessary to ensure I make it home in one piece.

    - Matt
  12. cybermonk

    cybermonk New Member

    When I was younger I fought against people with knifes in more than 7 or so occations and was never hurt bad, a cut here and there but never any deep wound or stabbing, I could be lucky but I wouldnt worry much about knifes. If all the person wants is your wallet and you dont have much money on it just give it to them, if not it has usually worked for me to jump backwards a few times and going for a low strike(sweep, kick to the upcoming knee etc). A knife could be deadly but in my experience is not much compared to what an experienced practitioner could do empty hand. If I had to choose between having to defend against an opponent with a knife or a snake stylist who is trying to rob me(or any other experienced opponent for that matter) I would choose the former. About the guns...well I havent had any experience with that and I would definately give them the wallet if thats all they want, if they want to kill me im sure there are ways to improvise when you are under such pressure and dont believe any training could prepare you for that.

    In most occations a knife is no more deadlier than our hands.
  13. renshinkai

    renshinkai New Member

    Your best option is to get out of there. The worst I've been threatened with before is a broken bottle. That was kinda my own fault though.I just talked him out of attacking me and walked away.
  14. Judderman

    Judderman 'Ello darlin'

    An interseting point raised by Matt. Is a greater understanding of the effective distance of a weapon a key factor?
  15. Kagebushi

    Kagebushi New Member

    definitely! since you cant block(usually) you have to know how far back you need to go to dodge a lateral strike, if you go back too far, you cant counter, but if you dont go far enough, you get hit. also, if its a bat or big stick(no blades) if you can get in close and grapple, it will pretty much make it useless.(as long as he doesnt get free, hop back, and swat you)
  16. bcullen

    bcullen They are all perfect.

    A lot depends on your intent as well, dodging and staying out of range is good if you don't intend to fight and are looking for an exit (good option). If you have determined that you must confront the attacker get in close, try to get right against them, the last place they want to cut or shoot is next to their own person and during a struggle it will make them just as likely to hurt themselves as you.

    I found one interesting difference between knifes and firearms. The hands up (turned inward) approach is good for a knife. Against a pistol keeping your hands in a down or neutral position gives you a better chance. When your hands are up they're ready to defend (good for knifes/clubs/fists etc..) but very visable (real bad for firearms). It needs to be a surprise, you have to get to his weapon, all he has to do is twitch his finger. It's a battle of reaction times and you have the short end of the stick.

    Of course if he uses "tha gangsta" grip you know he has no clue how to use the thing, so pimp slap him and give him a high caliber enema. :woo: :p
  17. renshinkai

    renshinkai New Member

    Bravo, bravo. Well said!
  18. Jame$

    Jame$ New Member

    Knife attacks are very deadly. But, I would agree that most people would pull a knife because they are weak and dont want to fight, just intimidate. In that case just trick them, start trying to placate matters and then..suddenly....BAM!
    He's disarmed and stood there like any other punch bag.
    Of course there could be many flaws with this theory. Don't listen to me!

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