Are UK Police not allowed to hit a suspect who's assaulting them?

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by EdiSco, Oct 26, 2018.

  1. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    A good acronym makes things much more memorable....

    Ben Gash CLF, Dead_pool and axelb like this.
  2. Alansmurf

    Alansmurf Aspire to Inspire before you Expire Supporter



    How's that one
    axelb and Simon like this.
  3. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    We either ban Smurf for advertising, or join in, but it would cause HAVOC. :cool:
    axelb and Alansmurf like this.
  4. Alansmurf

    Alansmurf Aspire to Inspire before you Expire Supporter

    It was Relevant Inventive Pertinent

    A deadly mistake sorry

    Blatant Attempt Definitely

    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
    Simon and axelb like this.
  5. neems

    neems Valued Member

    I once seen a 5 foot police woman and a slightly shorter and heavier female pcso get chased down the road by a very large woman armed with a trowel.

    Not sure where that fits into this conversation, but that image will stay with me until the day I die.
  6. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    A tactical relocation from the situation for further assessment is always an option.
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  7. neems

    neems Valued Member

    I bet that's exactly how they worded their reports too!
    Sounds a lot better than 'and then we both screamed and ran away'.

    They're just lucky the big girl didn't have the stamina to catch them, because I know who my money would have been on and it's not the 2 little middle aged ladies.
    David Harrison likes this.
  8. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I know its a very old post, but given the threads been briefly necro'd anyway I decided to read through it and wanted to add a piece to this just as another example. I got to go on a trip to the local courts when I did a Law A Level or GCSE, can't remember which, and we had a chat with a Magistrate. Somehow the subject of self defence came up and we were told, by someone who's job it is to sit in court and judge crimes, that hitting someone who's on the floor or using anything you've ever been trained in, such as martial arts, automatically disqualifies you from self defence. I'm aware Magistrates aren't actually qualified in law and are assisted by people who are, but its something that has stuck with me that even a person who's job it is to hear cases of assault and self defence had a completely wrong idea of what the law is.
  9. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    It doesnt disqualify you from SD, but it can be used against you. Context is everything, but if you don't know anything about martial arts...all martial arts are the same. The same level and same expectations.
    Hence where the "proportionate" part comes in.

    It's like when we read about soldier snipers doing crazy curved shots etc. If you dont know anything about shooting, you would think that all snipers should be able to do it.
    axelb, Southpaw535 and Shmook like this.
  10. neems

    neems Valued Member

    "If there has been an attack so that self defence is reasonably necessary, it will be recognised that a person defending himself cannot weigh to a nicety the exact measure of his defensive action. If the jury thought that that in a moment of unexpected anguish a person attacked had only done what he honestly and instinctively thought necessary, that would be the most potent evidence that only reasonable defensive action had been taken ..."

    Self-Defence and the Prevention of Crime | The Crown Prosecution Service

    I've been in court over these sort of issues before and no-one's ever asked about any training I do, and because any reasonable person can agree to the bold writing above it's always gone in my favour and for as long as that guideline's in place it always should.

    You'd have to do something stupid or completely out of proportion for that to not cover you in a self defence situation imo.
    David Harrison and Mitch like this.
  11. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Unless you walk into the Court wearing your club uniform/hoodie or a witness comes forward (either in a statement or otherwise) "do you train in any martial art?" Is not a standard question to be asked.
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  12. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    Out of interest , if you happened to use a “martial arts technique” , say a roundhouse , would that prompt the average officer to ask the question ?
  13. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    One of my students was asked if she had any training when reviewing CCTV with police of an incident in which she functioned. Just a yes or no question though, just out of curiosity I think. She wasn't facing any charges or anything though, just giving a statement.
    bassai likes this.
  14. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    I'm sure it would, but you and I have both done scenario based SD days with John Titchen and you've seen me straight blast, while I witnessed you dealing with someone using drills directly taken from kata (answer that you doubters).

    If it comes out automatically and isn't premeditated, then it's still all about justification.

    Currently in class I seem to be throwing eye jabs, following a parry (so a riposte), so if that's the response to a direct threat then that's what it is.
    bassai likes this.
  15. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    To be honest , that day was what prompted the question.
    Simon likes this.
  16. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    So taking into account you are the world's hardest punching person I'd argue that having to hit someone is a last resort for you.

    If you have to him someone in SD, then it's a decision not taken lightly.

    My instructor (Hannibal) in his system does pre-emptive strikes really early, so that of course requires a great degree of understanding of the law and what you can and can't do.

    I think a thread showing certain physical situations would be a good idea and we can get people to assume the role of one of the people involved and justify their actions as if being questioned by the police.

    For those that have done them it'll be like a de-brief after a reality based scenario session.
    bassai likes this.
  17. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Even non MA people can see (sorta) "technique". And Police see violence all the time, so even if they dont train in a MA themselves, most can tell when someone strikes if they had training or not.

    (The initial 720 spin probably gave it away tho?) :p
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  18. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    "I pushed him as hard as I could officer.

    With my left knuckles.

    Then my right knuckles.

    Then my right 3 more times." :D

    As a serious point, how we describe things is important, and unless you do enact the 720 mushroom refers to, or are on CCTV, I doubt it will even be mentioned by most bystanders.

    But then, if you are training your SD properly, it will be legally underpinned and CCTV will support your actions, not incriminate you :)
  19. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I've always wondered, say I'm fighting two guys and they're both attacking me with a lot of intent; something happens and I manage to intentionally break one of their arms or whatever and then continue fighting to ward the other away...

    Would the fact I broke someone's arm come up? Would they enquire about martial arts experience?

    I'd imagine if it was 2-1 it would be necessary to put one out of commission so I could keep fighting.

    Mind you I'd think there was an easy argument that I could think I was fighting for my life and that as a result I applied less damage than I felt threatened with.

    Southpaws story about magistrates I find downright scary.
  20. Alansmurf

    Alansmurf Aspire to Inspire before you Expire Supporter

    Dont worry
    Do your thing
    Stay safe
    Distract , disfunction,disrupt, strike hard, disengage , create distance
    Options available
    Last edited: May 31, 2019

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