Are UK Police not allowed to hit a suspect who's assaulting them?

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by EdiSco, Oct 26, 2018.

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  1. Alansmurf

    Alansmurf Aspire to Inspire before you Expire Supporter

    It's woefully inadequate

    It saddens me

    As many of you that have trained with me know I am emotive about this subject

    I train ..

    Most of my colleagues don't

    Sad as once a year tick box won't help anyone

    3000 to 5000 repetitions to be competent not good

    As for hitting back .

    If it's proportionate lawful accountable necessary and ethical ...

    Guess what ...... I hit hard to make sure I go home to my family
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
    Alansmurf, Nov 27, 2018
    #21
    Mushroom, bassai, SWC Sifu Ben and 6 others like this.
  2. EdiSco

    EdiSco Likes his anonymity

    are you a police officer too?
     
    EdiSco, Nov 28, 2018
    #22
    Alansmurf likes this.
  3. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Yes Smurf is a police officer and damn fine martial artist.

    You'll see a few of us around the self defence forums, but Smurf really knows his stuff and can apply it too, and in real life situations.

    One of the things that shocked me was the WPC's statement, "I'm not allowed to do that."

    "You certainly are if your backside is against the wall and you are fighting to stay alive", was my reply.

    The other thing that took me back a bit was when she said, "I have two years of muscle memory to undo."

    No you haven't. You are training. Go slow and just move.

    Seems some programming is a dangerous thing.

    Finally don't get me started on use of the baton. Let's just say disarms on the inside and outside lines from a swinging eskrima stick while empty handed showed the flaws in the technique she'd been taught.

    We should have more respect for our police officers, given what they have to deal with given the training they have.
     
    Simon, Nov 28, 2018
    #23
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  4. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    He also has some very interesting and effective tactics for 2 on 1 as a bouncer that he showed me. It's was incredibly interesting and I'd love to see two of him in action :p
     
    Pretty In Pink, Nov 28, 2018
    #24
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  5. Alansmurf

    Alansmurf Aspire to Inspire before you Expire Supporter

    Police officers in the UK engage at a very low confrontational level in most cases.

    That is the training and what the public expect of us . After all we police by consent .

    The transition from low to high is a difficult one for many people, most martial artists don't go straight into sparring without a warm up
    .
    Nobody can walk around in ready stance all the time or you will burn out.
    So what these video clips tend to show is that transition or gear change moment by the police officer trying to play catchup on the criminal who is already at fight level.

    The secret is to be able to read assess and recognise what the subject you are dealing with is likely to do.
    Almost a mental sparring match.
    It's listening to the verbals, watching the body language being aware of your surroundings enabling your ability to be one step ahead of the game .
    The subject is also either consciously or subconsciously doing the same thing .

    And all this is done with people yelling at you , recording you on phones,CCTV , body work camera recording looking to catch you out.

    So I ask my teams to Be professional be prepared be observant above all BE SAFE
     
    Alansmurf, Nov 28, 2018
    #25
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  6. Alansmurf

    Alansmurf Aspire to Inspire before you Expire Supporter

    Simon and Thomas...

    Thank you for your kind words.

    MAP meet 2019 is going to be AWESOME
     
    Alansmurf, Nov 28, 2018
    #26
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  7. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Here come the Boys in Blue!!!

    Well mine is more a shirt and slacks these days but I still have my uniform....
     
    Hannibal, Nov 28, 2018
    #27
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  8. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Err, yeah. I have a picture of your latest "uniform".
     
    Simon, Nov 28, 2018
    #28
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  9. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Oh I looked SO good in that!!!! It brought the house down!
     
    Hannibal, Nov 28, 2018
    #29
    Alansmurf likes this.
  10. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    See my previous post ...
     
    bassai, Nov 28, 2018
    #30
    Alansmurf likes this.
  11. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Would you like to see a picture of Hannibal in uniform?

    Of course you would.

    Ooh Err.jpg

    See you all at the MAP Meet.

    Be there if you dare.
     
    Simon, Nov 28, 2018
    #31
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  12. Alansmurf

    Alansmurf Aspire to Inspire before you Expire Supporter

    OMG ....

    bleaching my eyes
     
    Alansmurf, Nov 28, 2018
    #32
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  13. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    What's worse is that I have a video to accompany this.

    I don't think MAP is ready for that.
     
    Simon, Nov 28, 2018
    #33
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  14. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Whats worse is I think I look awesome!!!!!!!

    WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
     
    Hannibal, Nov 28, 2018
    #34
    Ben Gash CLF, Alansmurf and Simon like this.
  15. Alansmurf

    Alansmurf Aspire to Inspire before you Expire Supporter

    Remember!! EVERYTHING must be:

    J = Justified
    P = Proportionate
    L = Legal
    A = Accountable
    N = Necessary
    E = Ethical
    M = Media friendly
    D = Dianne Abbott measured
    S = Snowflake-approved
    9 = 9 o'clock Jury-worthy
     
    Alansmurf, Nov 28, 2018
    #35
    Shmook, axelb, Mushroom and 1 other person like this.
  16. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I feel like there was no effort to make that an acronym.
     
    Pretty In Pink, Nov 28, 2018
    #36
    Alansmurf, Monkey_Magic, axelb and 2 others like this.
  17. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    I may start putting this at the start of all my self defence lessons, so much of it is applicable to the public too.

    Seriously, everyone should read it again, because what it says is simple, but what it means is so hard to achieve. Superb.

    Smurf is top notch, if you ever get the chance to train with him, grab it. Watching and training with him in action on a sim day was something special, and he's a great training partner or Instructor too, he gives you lots of energy to enjoy your training.

    As for the general knowledge of those in the area of self defence, I have recently taught law students who thought you had to wait to be hit before you could strike. I suspect the law on self defence is low on the list after corporate, tax, etc etc.

    And if pretty in pink thinks there should be two Smurfs, just no! Imagine what would happen if he shook both your hands! :D
     
    Mitch, Nov 28, 2018
    #37
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  18. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I did a little bit of pattern applications with an eye to reality recently.
    One thing I stressed was how tricky and chaotic the transition from "what's going on here?" to "violence!" can be.
    How we may be playing catch-up with someone that's already worked up and ready to go.
    The example I used was popping into a shop for some milk and coming back to your car to be confronted by someone angry that you'd nicked their parking space 10 minutes before. They could already be at a 7/8 while you're still trying work out what their problem is.
    It's good to see that that kind of transition is seen as an issue even by experienced guys like Smurf (who I imagine has much less of an issue with that transition than most).
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
    Smitfire, Nov 29, 2018
    #38
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  19. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Wooooooooooooooo!!!!!
     
    Mushroom, Nov 29, 2018
    #39
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  20. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    I spent about 5 minutes trying to pronounce the associated acronym
     
    axelb, Nov 29, 2018
    #40
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