Are there any martial arts "ratings boards"

Judo might not teach strikes and defenses literally, but when going for a grip to a lapel they still accidentally (and some not so accidentally) might hit you in the face.

And I still think groin kicking is really overrated. As soon as a person stands a little sideways with the legs it's not that easy to actually manage to kick the groin. It's not that "super easy just do it nothing can go wrong"-technique some women DS-courses make it out to be.

And even though they are "only" sports (besides: So, you do them for fun. You still usually do more sparring and randori as in most DS-classes), they very least they teach you, is not to stand upfron, legs apart with a sign "kick here".

Which is something people would notice, would they actually go training sometimes and not only watch youtube and claim to be familiar with several arts.

And I admit, I am absolutely puzzled how Judo and such can not be considered martial arts.

 

Competition counts in Chadderz' 'anything from "drunk uncle at BBQ" all the way through to "violent thugs from Arkham asylum with knives"'? Okay.

I didn't watch the match above, but I did just watch a few seconds of Spijker fighting Erik Paulson. Where is your documentary evidence showing that Spijker learnt knee strikes, front kicks, roundhouse kicks and straight punches during his purely-Judo-with-no-other-style-whatsoever training?

 

Because after he lost Ben said in numerous interviews he has to learn what judo doesn't cover and train striking etc to properly compete in mma, so he did and then fought Erik.

 

Ben Spijkers - Wikipedia

Fight time line.

I can't find the interview online, I think it was on the VHS of the ben vs Erik fight, I'll see if it's on YouTube somewhere!

Either way watch the video I posted and you'll see straight judo.

 

So... that's the best evidence you've got for the efficacy of Judo? A loss in competition, then another loss after trying to plug the gaps by cross-training?

I don't have a dog in this race, I'm just curious why the standard of proof of efficacy appears to be higher for Tai Chi, among some posters in this thread, than other arts.

 

No that's not the best evidence, you just asked for fight video of someone who has no other experience then judo, it's the first well known one that popped into my head.

I can dig out lots of BJJ people loosing to judo Blackbelt in comp.

 

Rickson getting thrown by a straight judo guy.

 

In grappling comps? That's a bit limited, no?

Of course, you'd also need to prove that these Judoka had never trained in any other art.

I'm not trying to knock Judo, it's just that these days it's very hard to find anyone who has trained purely in one style without taking influence from any other. Personally, if someone like Hannibal tells me that he's got a lot from training with Tai Chi practitioners, I'd be inclined to take notice.

 

Marcello vs some tai chi guys.

 

Nishioka is also a Shotokan black belt.

 

You've obviously never trained under the BJA, if it's not judo, they generally aren't even slightly interested.

 

When did he earn it? The video is from -1987.

 

He was competing in Karate in the 60's.

Black Belt

 

Black Belt

Looks like he was by 1981!

 

So in a straight grappling match, does karate help.

Maybe maybe not.

Compared to his grappling record, I was say not so much in this case.

But in a mma match does striking practise help? obviously it does.

Really you have to compare like for like, otherwise it gets very complicated.

 

How would you propose separating the like-for-like when it comes to Tai Chi?

How would you personally decide if what you were watching was a Tai Chi element, and not something learned from cross-training in other arts?

I don't know much about Tai Chi, but from the little I do know I would think the principles contained within the system would infuse with techniques learnt from other systems, informing structure and movement. How can you disentangle that into what is purely Tai Chi and purely anything else?

 

I think David Harrison made a good point, mentioning that it's difficult to find people that really only trained one art the entire time.
Even my Judo teacher used to dabble a bit in Karate; I'd still say he's pretty close to being a pure Judoka but that doesn't mean he didn't profit from the little Karate he did for a while.
I'd need to ask him.

In addition I think it might be difficult to tell anyway.
The human body has two arms, two legs; they can get bend (or not) in so many direction, for example.
So the arts will have similarities either way.

In another forum a Wing Chun person claimed: Here, look in that video at point x. That's pure WC/ WT (I don't remember which).
When taking a look it was a simple arm drag.

Another example was brought after being asked for a video, where Aikido was used successfully in a fight.
The person that was asked linked a video, and point x was some variant of an Aikido-technique - it was pretty much a simple Judo-throw, with a tiny little variant of it.

My point is not to bash WC/ WT or Aikido, but to show that people with different backgrounds might see different techniques, because they are so similar.

When I still dabbled in Hapkido I was allowed to train for the first grading there during my JJ-class (grading was close and my teacher encouraged me to train for it during his class as well).
I tried one of the locks I learned during HKD and my teacher came over to me and asked me, whether or not I know the name of the throw.
It was a Shiho Nage and he actually managed to give me some good advice to make it better.
And made me curious as hell. So I looked up a video of the throw and asked my HKD-teacher if that's the thing I'm supposed to do for the grading or if there is a difference.
He watched the video twice and then pointed out a minor, tiny difference that was different in execution, but also agreed that it generally was the same throw.

 

Yeah that's a good point.

Yeah, actually I did see a cop in South Korea Hari Ogoshi (sp) someone like two days ago. He might have done some boxing but all I saw was him receiving two punches and then throwing the guy.

 

Harai-Goshi?
Where you kick the leg away when doing a hip throw.

I hate that throw.
Only because I hardly ever manage it in a way, that is even "okay", let alone good.

Aside from that I'm being too dumb for it it's a nice throw though

 

On the note of Tai chi, i just saw someone doing it when i walked past one of the recs in my town.

You wont find many peopel trained in one style unless that style covers eveyrhting and then it might eb argued that they have merged a few together or take aspects or what ever from others. I have probably the same stand point other people do here and thats you need learn at every aspect of fighting to stand a hope in hells chance of defending yourself. After all, what stops somoen from punching you in the face, kicking your knee or grabbing you or stomping on you when you fall down.

Also, PURISTS, REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

(have i just gone off on a tangent? XD)

Is marcello the one in black?