Are there any good non-complaint Ninjutsu videos out there?

For what looks like no reason (although the odd post is deleted so I suspect there was some not nice wording) still......

What does this seem to only happen in this part of the forum really? It is shame as the conversation was starting to get interesting.

In that there were no good quality Ninjutsu demo's to show where compliance was not one of the key features. All of them are taken from a largely static attack.

i.e Training partner grabs you from behind in a choke, applies no power, does not take your balance away, then you get out of his half baked choke with some ease and get him to the floor in an armlock.

Are there any vids showing what the rest of the MA community would consider non compliant. Where the punches are not just a one over baked hook or the king of compliance Fudoken strike????

Come on guys surely you have something to show.

It’s a shame my vids are not online and I will do some more as I have nothing to hide and would be only too happy to use images to illustrate my point of view.

It’s easy to poke holes at what the Ninjutsu community do but its seems harder for them to actually show what they mean to counter any view points to the contrary.

Let’s have an adult conversation about it and if the mods would be good enough to give us enough room to have an adult conversation please?

 

The thread was locked because the conversation was off-topic to the original point of the thread. You'll note that the joint lock conversation was continued in another more direct thread elsewhere.

In general the mods here are more open and allowing than other places I've been. Don't know where they "good to give us enough room" stuff is coming from.

Best,
A

 

Off topic I suppose. It would be nice to have a thread sometime where it doesn't de-evolve into an argument about compliance.

There are plenty of good quality x-kan demos. The fact that you refuse to concede that training against a representation of a committed attack is a viable training medium isn't going to change that.

That sounds like a bad uke.

Probably not.

"King of Compliance"? That's quite the olive branch.

Sure, but none of it's good enough. :hat:

So you're inferring that we "have something to hide"? Tell you what, we'll just save everybody a whole lot of time here. Yes, we're a cult, bent on the domination of our subjects by conditioning them to "comply". There is literally no value whatsoever within the Takamatsu-den arts. We all run around in the woods in halloween costumes throwing kuji at any fool who dare cross us. Of course, since it's all made up, and a sham, we're simply then beaten within an inch of our lives. Personally, when I train at home, I don't practice the Kihon, I simply practice falling on the ground in a somewhat convincing mann- ALL GLORY TO HYPNO-SOKE.

That must mean that we're wrong then, huh. Looks like you win the internet game of "Worlds the best MA".

We won't be able to have an adult conversation until you stop trying to convert. Wanna have an adult conversation about x-kans? Study one of them.

 

If you meet resistance you are doing it wrong.

I don't understand how this is such a difficult concept for other martial artists from other styles to understand. The whole concept of Budo Taijutsu is 'distance over resistance'. Resistance is bad, resistance makes everything inefficient.

Now a resisting uke is not a bad idea however doing gyaku on an uke who knows you are doing a gyaku and preparing himself to resist the gyaku is bad, there is no point because the uke can prepare himself to resist that particular technique.

Now telling your uke that you will choke him sometime within the span of a 6 hour seminar and he can resist the choke, that is good because it uses the concepts of ninjutsu and taijutsu.

Budo Taijutsu is nothing, and if you do nothing there is nothing to resist. Resistance is futile :woo:

 

You left out sake Fridays, a weekly holiday specifically designed for ukemi practice, and peanut butter Mondays, a weekly holiday designed to counter the effects of the hallucinogens provided by Hypno-soke

And I'm quoting this before some nutbar mistakes intent and goes on a flame fest. As Ace also said in his post we do train with resistance. We expect resistance from our opponents. The point of the art is to take advantage of where the resistance isn't and avoid getting into the 10 second contested strength vs. strength situations. (At least to me in my own limited understanding of the art.) Our friends are gravity and the way the body moves (ours and theirs)

 

Ace of clubs posted

Why is this bad?

You think they are not going to resist on the streets?

Garth

 

Ace of clubs also posted

So thats how one wins against someone intent on killing you.

Hmmm OK

Garth

 

Answer:

Yes, an assailant is going to resist on the streets. What Ace is getting at is this; you don't get an honest response to a technique from someone who knows exactly what you're trying to do or going to do to him.

When you're training for technique in a dojo where everyone knows what technique you're studying for the day, you need to have a certain degree of compliance in order to get the technique down.

When you're training for efficiency you need to train in randori with resistance in place. At that point you need to work around the resistance as whenever an opponent commits somewhere, there's usually an easy target somewhere else. No reason to commit strength vs. strength unnecessarily.

Hopefully, this makes sense.

 

Garth, I think you know why it's bad. Ideally, if you encounter resistance you should transition to a different technique, but something has to be "going on" in order for there to be any kind of transition flow. Starting static from resistance, IMO is pointless.

P.S. Is there some reason everyone refers to "The Real World" as "The Streets". For some reason it always reminds me of the movie Breakin' and I immediately get the mental image of a "dance-fight".

 

I would recommend you read the Bear's thread on Celtic Exchange thread. There east met west and there were strong physical exchanges with MUTUAL RESPECT AND LEARNING FROM EACH OTHER.

However this was not ninjutsu where sadly there seams to be too much distrust.Why not have exchange and meet the others there may just be some common ground.

koyo

 

In a way I agree with what LaBianca and Hayseed have posted.

Of course in the beginning stages of learning a technique such as Ura Gyaku, the Uke has to be compliant otherwise there is no way one can learn the mechanics of how ura gyaku works.

But at latter stages once you have the mechanics down you have to have some resistence otherwise its just not real. The guy outside the dojo, the real attacker is not just going to let you take his hand off your gi. If you think he will you are gravely mistaken.

In fact he will grip on even more, although if you know how to do Ura Gyaku correctly then one realises that you do not have to get the hand off you jacket to do ura gyaku.

Interestingly we learnt techniques like Ura gyaku when i was in the polce force, and guess what in a real situation on the streets they rarely work, and I have rarely seen police officers actually use them for that very reason. In fact i was one of only a few police officers that knew how to make them work.

The problem was that in training (Home office training) it was trained in a way where there was no resistence, and therefore it became a big shock when people started resisting and fighting back.

Personally the way I have seen Ura Gyaku done (IMHO) is just not realistic outside the dojo. I know you might disagree with that but its my opinion.

Now we seem to have two threads talking about the same thing so i will now shoot over to the other thread to continue.

Garth

 

What I'm saying is that you have to be in the middle of some form of randori before resistance should even be on the table. If we're simply doing uke/tori, resistance to omote gyaku just means that tori isn't going to be applying or practicing omote gyaku because he'll have to change to something else.

This may not necessarily be a resistance issue. When I used to study Kajukenbo, I learned omote gyaku, ura gyaku, and oni kudaki, except I knew them as "wrist grab defense 1 & 2"etc..(IMO there's something to be said for learning in an artificial context) They we're a couple of my favorites and I'd used them in sparring, however, until I took a weekend trip to South Dakota to train with a shidoshi there, I can honestly say that I hadn't even scratched the surface of what you can do with these, bio mechanically speaking.

 

IMO at first there should be little resistance until you get the technique down. The time for resistance comes with Randori and Sparring. But than again i may be wrong, that is the way I train and it works for me. Still it may not work for everyone or anyone else.

 

Arguments about a different topic that were spiralling into personal insults. It was also locked because the OP started an argument then left. I hoped other folks would make other threads to discuss the other topics and they did.

Because there are is a tendency for more personal arguments in this forum. Whether that is due to critic's or the practitioners here is a matter of some debate. I tend to think it's a combination of some critics being over eager and some practitioners being overly defensive.

Not a problem but 1) if you have a problem with moderation you will tend to find PM'ing the relevant mod gets a better response than starting a thread to complain and 2) adult conversation is the goal, I am not going to lock threads for debate only if they get out of hand. AND if I think someone is deliberately causing trouble to get a thread locked then I will temporarily lock the thread remove the offending posts and reopen it.

Pretty straightforward. I'm going to change the title of this thread now as well so it reflects the intended 'adult conversation' as opposed to generic complaint.

 

However this was not ninjutsu where sadly there seams to be too much distrust.

No one trusts the Ninjas man. Give 'em an inch and the next thing you known they are shoving a spear up your **** when you go for a dump.

 

I agree with this. That stated, I'd add that because of the mystique, aroma, whatever you will say that the ninjutsu art has (and I don't mean to add any special-ness to it but I don't know how to sum up the public opinion piece) there are more people willing to take shots, most practitioners have taken grief for studying from someone and most non-practitioners don't like being on the outside looking in at something that "might" be better but is surrounded by hacks.

So what I suggest to avoid snippy threads is this process: (I'll use it, others may not but your annoyance is what it is.)

1. Annoying thread or question comes up...
2. Nin practitioner asks if the OP is a practitioner of ninjutsu or not or is looking to learn about the art genuinely.

3. If the OP ignores the question or answers negatively, ignore the thread completely and just let mods deal with it.

If someone is genuinely interested then an answer should be forthcoming. If someone's just looking to start a fight, they won't get one.

As to flames that start in otherwise decent threads, just report the post and let it go. Kava seems to have a decent handle on things.

Best,
A

 

but why should they? whats this thing lately with hey show us your vid? if you want to see what its like go to a local club again Craig, it really is as simple as that, i for one dont want to post a vid (i have a few) to be honest i dont want to have to sit there and suffer the pain of somone picking at my training, i enjoy my training, training should be a selfish thing.

 

I think Sonshu's point is that amongst the thousands on Ninjutsu videos online there should be examples of non-compliant training if it is something that is common in training. The videos supplied in the other thread were what I and a fair amount of others would regard as compliant. I don't know whether non-compliant videos beyond what has been shown exist but I would hope that they do.

 

I dont think yoiu would ever find one they are looking for, on youtube you either find people doing kata or horrendous quality, i mean look at this crap, this is a 7th & a 10th Dan, Marc Moor and michelle Murray, this is what people see of us out there.

http://www.facebook.com/s.php?ref=s...video/video.php?v=100243425397&oid=3233185586