Are Catholics Christian?

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by GoldShifter, Apr 19, 2013.

  1. GoldShifter

    GoldShifter The MachineGun Roundhouse

    Man, I want to believe in my heart that Catholics are Christians. Gosh darn it, I'm always challenged at school for being a catholic because I go to a majority protestant school and I'm, I guess, that one kid everybody picks on for being different. The Buddhist, Agnostics, and Atheists at school, they give me no trouble at all haha, they can empathize, its the Protestants that I have been challenged the most by. One teacher has called Catholicism a "false" religion because of our use of Mary as an intercession to Christ. Our belief in the infallibility of the Pope regarding religious matters, (I don't quite understand why, and thus don't put much stock into it, but I won't go so far as to say he is just pulling things out of thin air). They challenge the position of the saints and purgatory (they say its unbiblical, I can see where they come from). I don't know every little tid-bit about Catholicism and there is much for me to learn. On the other hand, when I ask the some teachers, (I really am curious on what their view of Catholicism and Christianity and their relationship), some say Catholics are Christian, and some aren't. I know the Catholic church loves tradition, haha, we've been doing the same type of mass for ages. I cannot ever give a straight answer to their challenging Catholic doctrine because, I haven't learned much, being surrounded by Protestants all my early life, because that is the school I attended. I am curious on if there is any counter-arguments to what they are saying for us Catholics to answer them with. And for those that are Protestant, what is your view on Catholicism, are we Christian or not? For those that are of other religions, what do you think also? I don't think there is a true right or wrong answer to them, and when we find out, well, that'd be too late. The older teachers, especially, but not limited to, the ones that went through the Korean, Vietnam, or had parents that went through WW2, say that Catholics are Christian, and that the only difference is some certain beliefs. The younger ones, even the youth pastor, (with some exceptions) say that Catholicism isn't Christian. I believe Catholics are Christian but I find the amount of challenges make me want to find out other people's takes. Many people in my school are Bible-thumpers, if that's that helps you get a better view of how my school runs. One must be a Protestant to be a teacher, and/or class/student council. I would like to see your take on this subject, MAPers, just curious, that's all.

    Hopefully no hard feelings will come of this. :D

  2. CrowZer0

    CrowZer0 Assume formlessness.

  3. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin


    And just as wrong as Protestants :D

  4. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    I'm pretty sure Jesus would spit at the feet of most 'Christians', so why does it matter if they accept you as part of their blasphemous society?
  5. CrowZer0

    CrowZer0 Assume formlessness.

    I don't see Jesus as much of a "Spit at your feet" kinda guy.
  6. matveimediaarts

    matveimediaarts Underappreciated genius

    Of course Catholics are Christian. In fact, unless one is Catholic or Orthodox, he doesn't belong to a Church (in the original and truest sense of the word). The several thousand protestant denominations have "worship communities", not churches. I'm Russian Orthodox, but admire Catholic scholars like Augustine. :)
  7. TheMadhoose

    TheMadhoose Carpe Jugulum

    Protestants getthere name form the term "Protestant Catholic" same ideals but with the english crown as the centre of their religion as opposed to Rome. as the King was not allowed to divorce.
  8. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Only if there's no water around to wash them with.
  9. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    Catholics are Christian by the two tests that really matter:

    (1) The tautological test: because Catholicism is a religion built around Christ, Catholics are Christian.

    (2) The Nicene Creed test: because Catholicism follows the Nicene Creed, it is considered Christianity.

    One or the other of those tests is what matters. I prefer the former, but historically, the latter has been the defining litmus test of Christianity. Everything else out there is a "no true Scotsman" argument.
  10. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Really it sounds like some of your teachers are essentially bullying a child/young adult (don't know how old you are) under their care.

    Turn the other cheek and prove you're closer to Christ than them.
  11. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Not actually true

    Protestants were Martin Luther's crew. When Henry VIII separated from Rome and made the CofE he was still anti-Protestant. It was his son Edward who was Protestant. His daughter Mary was RC and after Edward died out the pope back in charge and finally Elizabeth 1 reconciled them to the kind of hybrid CofE we have now

    In answer to the original question yes they are - they are one type of Christianity
  12. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    I think you should prove that you're more Christian by torturing them and burning them at the stake. Old school Catholic, no one messed with them man.
  13. GoldShifter

    GoldShifter The MachineGun Roundhouse

    I am almost certain the English crown was the Anglicans, who have everything just as Catholic as a catholic, except with divorce.

    And to the others who posted. Haha, I love the answer you guys gave me. Thank you for your answers, I hope there will be many more. Thanks guys, the answers also comforted me, if not also gave me a nice chuckle here and there, (that ones at you Mitch :D)

    This one almost made me fall out of my chair. If only it was legal here in California, no I'm kidding haha.

    (Edited to add Philosoraptor's answer in here, I forgot to click post the first time, so I didn't see it)
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2013
  14. OwlMAtt

    OwlMAtt Armed and Scrupulous

    What a silly question. Catholics believe in the Christian God and salvation through Jesus Christ, therefore they are Christians. Period. They might not be your cup of tea, but they're still Christians according to even the most restrictive definition of the word. One might as well ask whether or not cheddar is cheese.
  15. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Valued Member

    Actual Christians are pretty rare in both Catholic and Protestant bible-thumping communities, as their aggression and unpleasantness towards you demonstrates.
  16. fatcat

    fatcat Valued Member

    Sounds like sectarianism to me. As a cathlolic, I left Northern Ireland during the troubles to get away from this kind of rubbish. Unfortunately, biggotry and hatred are some of the less appealing aspects of organised Christianity.
    Don't get into any bun fights with these people - you are wasting your time. I have heard some very spiteful anti-catholic propoganda. Time to practice turning the other cheek I am afraid,
  17. Sampsi

    Sampsi Valued Member

    This teacher is ignorant and down right rude, I'm sure in most situations asking someone's mother to have a word with them about something will do more than you talking to the person yourself.

    The infallibility of the Pope is a misnomer, as the "shepherd and teacher to all Christians," he can speak ex cathedra, which means that he speaks with the full authority of his office (Supreme Pontiff). The Pope can only speak ex cathedra on matters of faith or morals, and it is nicely covered by the whole "as on earth so shall it be in heaven" bit (with the Pope being the successor to Peter). There have only been a few cases where Popes have spoken ex cathedra, so the idea that everything the Pope says is infallible is just wrong as Popes speak as themselves occupying the position of Pope rather than speaking as Pope (it's sort of like the difference between a CEO being at a meeting and speaking as himself as the head of the company or him speaking as the company itself). Also along with all this Catholics do not need to recognize the infallibility of the Pope when he speaks ex cathedra so it doesn't really matter that much.

    The Catholic Church does not appoint saints, it recognizes those who are role models of Christianity and given gifts from God which are beyond the normal boundaries (such as a loving family or high intelligence). What most protestants believe God can and might grant them is exactly what saints have been given and the Church canonises them (makes them a saint), to put a special little asterisk next to their name to say this person was close to God so be like him or her.

    Purgatory is a belief in Judaism, Catholicism and Lutheranism (the original protestant church started by Martin Luther) and a great deal of other Christian denominations. Purgatory is effectively just a belief that purification of the soul can happen after death and can be seen in the Bible at various points such as, 1 Corinthians 3:11-15.

    Catholics do love tradition and there is nothing wrong with it as long as it doesn't hold you back like it did at various points in history, like with the inquisition against Galileo (Galileo, Galileo Figaro - magnifico O O O...... sorry a bit off topic :eek: ). However unless you are part of a very small traditional group of Catholics your mass has probably been changing over the years like anything else. There was a big change from the traditional Tridentine mass (sung in Latin) in the 1950s under Paul VI and then it was eventually scrapped, for all but a few priests who insisted upon keeping it, for the mass of Paul VI. Effectively if your mass is sung in Latin then it is likely to have been changed in some way over the years and is probably no newer than 1900 and if it's spoken or sung in a native language (English, German, Swahili etc) then it is likely to be no older than 1950s. Recently in England we've just changed some of it round to fit a closer translation of certain parts of the bible so my mass is no older than a couple of years (which is probably newer than their mass if they've had the same vicar for a while).

    Erm... I think that was everything, sorry if it's an awfully long response, but as some of the members on here will know I rarely post and I sort of got carried away because I actually had something to throw into the ring. In short Catholics are Christians and the whole of Christianity boils down to each person trying to do the best they can to be nice. Hope this helps.
  18. adouglasmhor

    adouglasmhor Not an Objectivist

    Rubbish there were protestants long before the foundation of the CofE. I think you are confusing the Anglican communion with the entire protestant movement. And even Scottish Anglicans (Episcopalean Church) are given exemptiopns from having the monarch as de facto head.
  19. adouglasmhor

    adouglasmhor Not an Objectivist

    Your post is full of nonsense. There are many Protestant churches.
  20. querist

    querist MAP Resident Linguist?

    It's not a silly question at all, not from his perspective. As someone who was raised Catholic and currently attends a protestant church, I can relate to his concerns.

    I am personally of the opinion that Catholics are Christians. Baptists, mostly, would disagree with that pronouncement which is one of the many reasons why I won't serve as an officer in my current church. I will admit that I have a few theological differences with our Catholic brethren, but they are what I would consider to be very minor issues that are mostly not unique to the Catholic church anyway.

    But is Velveeta cheese? :eek:

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