Here's a serious problem I have, Richard Dunn, with your idea of what Taiji is: no established master of Taiji I have met shares it! My teacher studied with Wang Meng Bi, one of the most respected masters of Taiji to come to Taiwan. My teacher's friend and classmate, Adam Hsu, studied with Du Yu Ze, another of the most famous Taiji practitioners to come to Taiwan who studied at Chen village before the Communists. So if Taiji is about disrupting other peoples energy without touching them or causing them to huddle in a fetal position just by touching them then why have I never heard of it?! I have studied Taiji with people with better credentials than you and they think what you're saying is rubbish! You can't "transfer" your qi to others with a mere touch (unless maybe you practice zang-gong?), and certainly not without touching. You have to use your own qi to power your own body. I have felt my qi and I know what it is. I have come to this understanding primarily through practice of a Buddhist system of qigong traditionally practiced by Mantis and Longfist practitioners! I have also studied Daoist Taiji systems associated with Taiji and Bagua and NEVER have I encountered anyone reputable who claims to be able to do these kinds of things--certainly never anyone who can do them to me. If you really understand the qi system and TCM then why don't you explain for me what is going on "energetically" when you touch someone and make them curl up in a ball? And I mean, go into specifics. Say, "I'm sending my dantian qi out through the shou yangming-jing and into the opponent's yumen point" or something. Don't worry that we won't understand what you're talking about it. If it involves real qigong terminology I will understand. If it's just something "you have to feel" that you can't explain then it sounds to me like your engaging in something closer to religion than martial arts or qigong. If your martial art only works on believers then it isn't a martial art, it's a cult!
Sorry it only comes out of Yang and Yang rooted derivatives. Ma ? ? sorry forgot his last two names, the Wu family head who died a year or so back had it in oodles and showed it. Lots don't show it, unless to senior or inside the door students. I am told modern Chen does not have it but it must still lurk somewhere otherwise Luchan wouldn't have had the basis that got expanded in Beijing. My teacher when questioned on this smiles and says that there are two Chen, the modern one is not the same. It definitely is no longer in Chen Village unless it is very well hidden, some do that as you can see why. You must remember that the Chen family only adopted the name in the late 1940's and only because a market existed for them to tap into. I can't help you in Taipei but in the US you can observe it at http://www.gstaichi.org/ in europe you can see it at http://itcca.org/ In the UK you can go to a John Ding class (JDIATCC) and see it but he does not publish clips. These I can vouch as genuine. Perhaps tccstudent can give you more. Also it is essential you let go of the hard side to get it, ie develop the skill to use it. I respect very much what you have told me about your school and I do not in any way object to this form of mixed training. I have students from other arts train with me. You call them what they are, you have not created a hybrid. With your level of development and training I could show it to you in 5 minutes if you let me. If you didn't want to see or saw it as a conflict or a challenge you would see nothing but you may feel.
I guess trying to have a discussion with 20 year olds these days is even tougher than I thought. There is something about this current generation that is severely lacking. Maybe it's the rap music, I don't know - lol. It must be tough when all your heroes are people like Snoop Dog and Eminem! It seems to me that the most intelligent people I know are people who were born in the 60's or before.
Richard - You are trying to persuade already persuaded people. They will not understand you, because they look with different eyes. Liokault - I can attest that whar Richard teach is a martial art and also TJQ. Tccstudent - People who don't train internal skills can't understand them. Onyomi - Probably teachers in your lineage don't put such emphasise on "internal" work. That what we don't understand this don't mean that is rubbish! I comprehend Richard how is difficult to explain to people something that they (will) not understand.
My opinion about all of this is: - First: The internal work done in Richard's school has it sense and is useful in Taijiquan. - Second: It is an exceptional and profound internal work. - Third: That work has it value especially in the internal martial arts (such the Yang Taijiquan). - Fourth: Gained (internal) abilities are not essential for (external) martial arts. - Fifth: Gained abilities will not guarantee you to win a fight but will help.
I'm still waiting to hear how long LIOKAULT has been practicing TC seriously, as well as others on this particular thread. Since, you guys are so sure of your words, you must be extremely experienced and talented Tai Chi Chuan practioners. I'm always eager to learn from the likes of you talented and experienced guys (read sarcasm here). It's always interesting when you find out all the "experts" here have only been practicing for a year or so and go to their classes one or two days a week. Regular warriors, Internet warriors that is - LOL > As for me, I just passed the five year mark, so I still have lots to learn and understand, but I train everyday and believe I am on the right track.
Hey TCC student, great post! I practice TJQ (and also Qigong and related practices as a hobby). I like it! The regular practice is the only way to develope abilities for fighting. I also found some exercises to develope the necessary abilities (such looseness, coordination, balance and sensitivity). In my opinion additional execises can help more than TJQ alone! Maybe also that the TJQ movements are no needed (or necessary)! If you develope the above abilities you can fight without "form". You became like a water (soft, flowing, equilibrate and powerful). Defeat a waterfall if you can.
My shifu has forgotten more about "internal work" than Richard Dunn ever knew. It is a very important part of not only his Chen Taiji, but also his Praying Mantis curriculum. As I said before, his Chen Taiji comes from pre-1940's Chen village. I asked Richard to go into detail about the internal mechanics of what he is doing, but he seems to just ignore me, most likely because he can't. My shifu understands qigong and how to use it for true martial application. He can also explain to you what is going on internally in great detail though you may not be able to really understand it without feeling it for yourself. I asked Richard Dunn to provide some such explanation to prove he has some idea of what he's talking about and he does not. I interpret that as him not knowing what he's talking about. People like Richard Dunn do real qigong a great disservice by making it appear to be airy-fairy, touchy-feely, new-age mysticism when it is really a practical kind of exercise for achieving good health and enhanced martial ability. I don't claim to understand everything about qigong. I doubt anyone living does. I admit that it is somewhat mysterious and that its ability to affect the human mind can easily send it into the realm of mysticism. This is all the more reason why qigong practitioners have to maintain a grounding in reality when approaching the subject. I'm all in favor of keeping an open mind, but I also never stop analyzing. And thus far, Richard Dunn's idea of qigong does not stand up to analysis.
You see you have got it **** about face, that is why your question is meaningless. I will ask you a question then to ask your teacher if he is so omnipotent. "In those clips whose energy is actually creating the function?" the answer to that is why your question is meaningless. It has no relevance on the subject. You are the second person here I have tried to show respect to and they are both bloody rude in return. Why should I help you? This is not qigong per se, this is not acu point manipulation or energy emission. Again the same clue as I have given out three times already. It is all in the mind (intent / yi). The flavour of the intent dictates the function. It is not some stupid *ray* being emitted by your jing gong or something equally stupid. It is a living interface between living things that are connected. I don't necessarily have to be in contact to feel a person or make connection but definitel makes life easier. Qigong is development jin is use.
OK onyomi I take it back, I keep forgetting you are a kid. I am over two and a half times your age, where you are at is OK, don't lose sight of that, you wont always be there.
Lol. Must be all that hot "qi" he's full of. I guess I can't comprehend such profound wisdom what with all that crazy rap music we young people listen to nowadays. Isn't it funny with all his "extensive" contacts throughout China and Hong Kong that the only people he can recommend for his crazy version of Taiji are in the UK and America? Look at this "defense" against a Japanese sword: http://itcca.org/site/content/org/C...onstrationen_20050912144916/videos/katana.ram Ok, Liokault, it's now officially OK to say "you people are ruining Taiji."
I'm not gonna discuss on the topic, but i am gonna discuss the discussion: Telling others that they ruin Taiji is just plain simple and idiotic. I mean, why go for such an offence, when you could also explain them you're vision and perhaps constructively come to a solution. Would they not agree with you? Then they probably wouldn't agree with such a useless and aggressive statement; you are ruining taiji. First of all people are most likely to run into a defensive attitude and accept none of your arguments on this topic in the future, however reasonable they might be. You know the biggest, major flaw i see in this forum yet not expected is the lack of open mindedness, constantly not discussing but always attacking the person who made that post, not the arguments he used. Like; haha you said this and that, you are such a idiot, you have no clue bla bla. Does that get you anywhere? Or are we all a bunch of little childeren on this forum. Taiji is meant for openmindedness, going with the flow, accepting whats coming to you, and move with it. If i would look at most posts all i see is offencive behaviour, which a true taiji practitioner, would have lost because he would reckoned that the force to bend with another person is more usefull than attacking with full force. I see hardly anyone truly incorporating Taiji Principles into discussions on the board, if i am to judge purely on what i read. Anyway continue with whatever offensive material you wanted to use in the first place, but i see taiji as a way of living, not just using the principles when fighting.
I give you people who are public, the people in HK and mainland are private. They would not be very happy about me listing them or a contact point on a public list, especially to a rude kid.
I take your point. I will try again to be constructive and then we can veiw where the attacks and dissing come from :- Words are a big problem in explaining a feeling, Chi (for me) is the thing that is in you and me now and wont be in us when we die, we will still be flesh, we will still have a brain. The energy thing that makes it all work and leaves us when we die is Chi, the energy of life. There are many types and I think many ways of it shifting around the body and manifesting, from blood stream to nervous system. The bit we are playing with I don't know how it manifests itself, sometimes it feels like magnetism sometimes it feels like it comes from the bloodstream, I have no feeling of Chi meridians but there are contact points that seem to activate it more, that co-incide with these. The normal stuff is on auto pilot i.e. controlled by the unconscious mind, our bit we are trying to use can only be controlled by us by having it drawn out by certain techniques and "shown" to you, over and over again until you start to learn to control and move it yourself. When you "get" that then you can use those techniques to tap into others and show them etc etc etc. Every action must involve Chi, but "normal" action involves muscle which is activated by the Chi but from that point on it is just a mechanical process. Relax (unstress the structure), but keep the structure linked and aligned through to the root, put you Yi in gear (focus and direct the unconscious mind) and the Chi will flow past the muscle and do the work required.
How to train your intent or Yi. Easier done, when you know how, than explained, but in the early days of training I set someone up in a position using the principles and test it pushing in a straight line down the energy lines to the root and when they get it all positioned it is very strong, and then I say (especially if male )) think about what you are having for dinner tonight, and then he gets pushed, it is quite simply having your mind on what you are doing, at its simplest. It becomes a bit more when it becomes energetic and internal but it is still basically that, the ability to focus and concentrate. Some people confuse it with conscious thought but it's not words it is the *intent*. Pushing hands trains intent, one of the games I play with my student even if I can push them any time I want, is to wait until I feel their intent disconnect. If I don't do anything but defend against them eventually their mind backs off and then they *go*, that tends to make them stay with it. You feel the disconnection through the contact point initially and is a basic part of sensitivity training, later you can feel it even without contact, part of *no contact* sensitivity. Its all a game, A couple of ladies, students of my master always start PH with a big smile and friendly greeting while they are immediately probing your centre and if unaware your gone. At its simplest its the boxer wiggling his left hand in the air to make you look then smacking you with the right (the sucker punch), then there is doing it energetically, take them away from being aware of what you want to do, hide your intent. The TCC classics explain it so "I know my opponent, he doesn't know me, when my opponent moves I am there before him". Two sides, reading your opponents intent, hiding and then using your own. All facets of sensitivity training.
If I can, I will take someone into my centre and overpower them, that way I do not have to fight. If they threaten my centre, I will deflect them and then it is cat and mouse to take theirs first, but this involves a degree of conflict. All power creation is a combination of centre and root and as skill and chi power develops the power of centre surpasses the power of root until eventually the centre can take over to such a degree that physical conflict (and even sometimes physical contact) is made superfluous and immaterial. To take someone's centre energetically is the ability to feel and recognise it beyond the gross level of when someone obviously loses their balance. Before that is the point they lose or you take their centre energetically, sensitivity training gets you there, and it is a feeling through the point of contact with your partner / opponent of :- 1 a disconnection between their centre and root = basic, 2 a slight sense of them floating before this disconnection = on the way, 3 as soon a your mind thinks it, you have it, and you just *know so* = you got it, 4 beyond that level is when you can take their centre just with your mind even before they come in contact with you = you have really got it, 5 finally as soon as someone shows any intent they are taken and without you seeming to participate at all = now your up there with Yang Luchan (YLC) etc and very very few ever get there. Lovely story I was told about YLC, it seems he was famous for being able to cope with any number of attackers at once, he would back up to a wall or especially a corner and he would limit the attack options and could handle anything thrown at him. So five someone's (I know not who) decided to catch him in an open space at night so he could not limit the attack directions. I think it was in Tian An Men sq. at night that they set their trap and slowly surrounded him. Well the story goes he threw or twisted his cloak over his head and spiralled down into a foetal position and just let them attack, they tried everything to strike him as hard as they could but couldn't retain their stance and could not strike with any power, eventually exhausted they gave up and YLC just unfolded and walked off. Nice story I hope it is true as it shows this last level of ability.
