Anyone ever done MA weapons in the SCA?

As tempted as I am to start a tangent about whether the reciting the dojo kun is particularly pointless (whether you do it in Japanese or the vernacular), I think we're getting pretty far afield of SCA heavy fighting. Or maybe I'm missing your point. Anyway, if you'd like something answered that I haven't answered, please let me know.

I'm personally not into ritual (that's why I've primarily found myself in Olympic martial sports instead of traditional martial arts), but I understand others love ritual and find benefit in it. To each their own.

 

For those who were asking if formal training was part of SCA heavy fighting, here's a short video of one CU Boulder guy giving an explanation of the mechanics, setup, and execution of a particular combination to a less-experienced practitioner:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6KC9UDIjXE"]Training: Offside leg fake into rising cross - YouTube[/ame]

From what I've seen of SCA heavy fighting, this sort of one-on-one instruction by more experienced participants to less experienced participants is common--whether it be a thirty-minute "lesson" or whether it's stopping some friendly free-sparring and saying "let's talk for five minutes about what you and I are doing." Lining up in rows where one instructor tells ten people what to do and they all do it in unison, however, is not something I ever saw.

For those who asked about the rules, there are official SCA rules, sometimes supplemented by the region with additional rules.

SCA Rulebook: http://sca.org/officers/marshal/docs/marshal_handbook.pdf

Outlands region supplement: http://outlands.org/Portals/0/Rulebooks/Armored_Combat_Handbook_October_2005_letter_size.pdf

(Much like how the Federation International D'Escrime regulates the rules of modern fencing but USA Fencing has additional rules for US domestic competition).

 

My wife at the time loved it.


Seriously, it was the slow change in the attitudes of "those in charge" that turned it sour.

 

Yes most other groups do the same.

All new fighters start out "sword and board", that is sword and shield.

While I will not call SCA Heavy Metal fighting a martial art, you do have to have a great deal of conditioning and training to run around in 50 plus pounds of armor all day long.

 

The main purpose is to win the battle and to establish the "pecking order" of the group.
It is considered the meat and potatoes of the SCA.
It is also what attracts most people to the SCA and can be a real hoot when done right.
It is more than single combat matches.
It is also team matches, field battles, fort sieges, bridge battles, etc.
There are strategies involved on both the individual and unit level.
In large battles it is also arrows flying, catapults throwing stones (not real stones but they CAN knock you off your feet), ballistas firing bolts, pole arms, axes, and spears.

The biggest problem with it is that each combatant is on his "honor" to properly call the blow that hits them as either a wound or kill.
For whatever reasons, fighters will refuse to call good strikes in the name of winning.
Rhino Hides they are called.
The way the rules are set up, the marshals, or referees of the fight/battle will not step in and stop a fighter for refusing to call blows.
This leads to an escalation of power and techniques until you reach the point where only a real injury stops the contest.



For those few out there that may think I am dragging the discussion down, I am really not trying to.
I do have a different view (however jaded) on it based off all my years in armor.

 

There IS actually group combat in addition to one-on-one combat. The competitive rules for group combat are laid out in the rulebooks I posted a few posts up. From my friend's descriptions of fighting in one such battle, individual competitors fall to the ground when defeated in the battle (same combat rules as one-on-one combat but applied to masses), allowing for formations, group tactics, etc.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui5-WIps-0M"]Pennsic XL Pass Battle - YouTube[/ame]

 

You and all your buddies from one region armor up and line up on one side of a field. All the blokes of another region armor up and line up on the other side of the field. You all rush together and start pounding each other with rattan swords, trying to knock out the enemy (not in the unconscious sense but in the removed-from-combat sense, with a solid hit to the head or torso). If you're smart, you and your buddies protect each other by fighting in formation; they do the same. Eventually, as casualties escalate, someone's line collapses and the battle becomes a rout. The field marshal blows a horn and stops the battle. Then all the "dead" stand up off the battlefield and everybody goes and drinks together.

Admit it. It sounds pretty fun.

 

If this was a forum for battle tactics, that would be relevant. Might as well ask Four-Two Commando to stop by to explain beach-head assault to us.

 

Sheildwalls died out before the medieval period. Also you don't use a shield in plate armour. So again its not historical but a fun game.

The Bear.

 

Can you direct me to whatever information you have that states that shield walls died out? Shield walls are still used today when the circumstances call for it.

 

Read any history book about medieval warfare.

Don't think you find any military force using a shield wall in combat.

The Bear.

 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shield_wall

Cavalry made pike formations the preferred method, as far as I understand, I'm sure PB can give a more detailed answer.

Shield walls are only used by riot police now, not in warfare.

Edit: he beat me to it...

 

The short answer is stirrups. That's right we didn't have stirrups until the medieval period. Once they arrive you get heavy cavalry and it changes the battlefield dramatically.

The Bear.

 

Yes, I was very suprised to learn this recently. Apparently between stirrups and couched lances, the kinetic force of a lance attack was more than doubled.

I understand it as being as revolutionary to the battlefield as stabilized guns on tanks were. Both are about creating a more stable weapon platform.

 

For crowd control situations and riots a shield wall is still the best way.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH8T8zaJjhU&feature=endscreen&NR=1"]Must watch - How riot police should be doing it! (South Korea) - YouTube[/ame]

These tactics are still practiced and trained for.

Formation combat tactics are "alive" in the situation just as much as individual tactics are. Considering that calvary are not used anymore we come back to the best way to stop another group of human beings from getting past you or getting them to move if they don't want to is a shield wall sans firearms obviously. Though there are shields for limited situations for that as well.

 

Don't swat teams use shield walls to and shoot from behind them. Is that not warfare? Or close to it?