Anyone else prefer the more traditional 'hands out front' stance?

Discussion in 'Thai Boxing' started by Anarch, Mar 25, 2012.

  1. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    I'm more of an inside fighter, so I tend to keep my hands close to me and work my way to get inside.

    I will however use the fists forwards, arms out stance if I find that it will benefit me more at that present moment in time. I'm 5ft 11 (85-90kg) with quite long arms, so when my arms are a bit further out, I can use it on my shorter reaching opponents to pop jabs and counter.
    Forcing them to come to me so I can start clinching.

    I personally don't like to "reach" for clinches, I usually set it up with a long jab, then a short strike (ie a hook) combo before clinching. This makes the person cover up, obscuring their vision (hopefully).

    You say you have issues with head movements. I suggest you start practicing them more. You cannot have headmovement like in boxing though, as when you dip your head low enough, you will either get kicked/knee'd to the face/head area.
    Which is slightly unpleasant.

    Look at yourself a lot in the mirror and practice your moves. Its seems vain but does work wonders.
    An old training tool is a long sock/stocking with an orange/ball/coke can inside. Tie up somewhere it can hang and have the item around head height.
    Have the ball swing past your head and use your stance and headmovement to move out the way.
    If you youtube Mike Tyson training, you can see he uses this technique.

    Other ways of training your head motion is obviously in class or with a partner to which I'm sure your coach will cover at some point.

    Good luck, Have fun.
     
  2. daggers

    daggers Valued Member

    The reason it's not used and that rhino move is aweful, the attacker just has to push the guard down while elbow striking and your done, if your extending your guard to keep distance or move to clinch you must make sure YOUR hands are above theirs or they will pull your guard down and elbow,
     
  3. fire cobra

    fire cobra Valued Member


    Hi Oldi,The guard isnt commonly used at all nowadays,it was during the 1970s,things go out of fashion in a way or just fall out of favour,it doesnt leave you vunerable for straight punches strangely enough exept for to the body,it is vunerable to a uppercut but if you have the counter set then all good on that to,ah just re read your post and you mean to be able to punch straight,well it weakens the jab of course but not the right hand:)

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55AasOJZzDE"]YouTube[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2014
  4. Unreal Combat

    Unreal Combat Valued Member

    My Kru's son, who has trained and had several fights in Thailand, deploys a hands forward type of guard in sparring sometimes. Usually he keeps his opponent out of punching distance and uses it to cover his opponents hands and/or push them up to deliver kicks or knees to the body.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2014
  5. fire cobra

    fire cobra Valued Member

    Oldi,Whilst not exactly the "long guard" the concept behind it is the same,take a look at how Ali clinches foreman,pay best attention to his left hand and what he does with it when foreman is punching,of course in MT we can elbow ,kneee;kick AND punch from the guard,as well as tie up and oh man so much its well worth playing with,you need all the relevant drills to develop it for strength flexibility etc though:)
     
  6. fire cobra

    fire cobra Valued Member

    Nice one UC,I really like the guard ,if the pros and cons are taken into account and a thorough study ids done it would be a great tool to add to anyones game imho,Ajarn Burklerk practiced some good stuff with me using this guard:)
     
  7. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    You can use it to keep your opponent out of punching distance. You can also use in to close the distance.

    If you use regular boxing guard, bend both arms, and put both hands in front of your own face, it will be very difficult to get your opponent into a double neck ties. Also the hand forward guard will move your elbow closer to your opponent's face for your elbow striking.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2014
  8. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    When your opponent tries to "push" or "pull" your arms down (or up), he is playing your favor clinching game. That will be exactly what you want in order to obtain your MT "double neck ties". Your forward arms are acting as a bait for your "striker" opponent as

    "Here is my arms. Please grab it, push it, pull it, or play with it any way you like. Let's have fun in the clinch game. When you try to play with my arms, I want to put both of my hands behind your neck and then ...."
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2014
  9. Oldi

    Oldi Valued Member

    Are there any (preferably tall for weight class) fighters I can watch to get a better idea of this? I assume this sort of long guard is used when advancing rather than when retreating/evading?
     
  10. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Valued Member

    Dieselnoi would the type specimen:
    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw-wpWMS-WY"]dieselnoi vs champ kerate jeo IN USA .flv - YouTube[/ame]
     
  11. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    I have been trying for awhile now to think why I don't like that rhino guard and I think I finally know why. Took a while for me to figure it out. I am slow.:D

    That Rhino guard looks to me like it would leaves open the lower core body wide open, expecially for sweeping side shots. A Wang (wong? sp?) Sow Chui to the floating ribs or even a bit lower. Or a good kick to the sides.

    In those video's the attacker is feeding punches right to the guard, not looking for openings.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2014
  12. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    That's the purpose for the rhino guard. You let your body open except your head. When your opponent attacks your body, his head will be open for your attack (get him a double neck ties). If your opponent uses both arms to guard his head, it's pretty difficult to get his head.
     
  13. daggers

    daggers Valued Member

    Would love to see "rhino guard" actually used to good effect in a fight? There's millions of vids you must have one?
     
  14. daggers

    daggers Valued Member

    You see this link , although they are using against jab you can see how it works against extended guard, my fighter got ko'd with the very same move a few years ago, pull guard down and elbow
    http://youtu.be/74jZNGmWPi4
     
  15. Unreal Combat

    Unreal Combat Valued Member

    I don't think I've ever seen that "Rhino Guard" in Muay Thai, ever. I couldn't see it being particularly useful. If it was, you'd see it used in the ring.

    We drill that specific parry and elbow technique (minus throwing the jab, just against the outstretched arm, and using more of an overhead elbow) in your video pretty much every session. I don't really see how you'd pull the elbow off against an outstretched guard set up more for leg range that's covering your hands as it requires using the opposite hand to parry the guard to the inside so you have the freedom to pull off the elbow. I'd have thought it would leave you quite vulnerable to a counter attack.

    Do you have any links to any video that would be a better example of elbow counters for this sort of guard? It would be interesting to see what to look out for.
     
  16. Oldi

    Oldi Valued Member

    To briefly bring it back to being lanky/rangey, my natural inclination is to move and evade quite a lot, which seems at odds with this more pressuring use of the long guard that is now being recommended to me (not here necessarily).

    Is it right to say that the best way to make use of a reach advantage is to use this more attacking, long guard-based style like I've seen from Dieselnoi? Or can a long guard-based approach work with the more evasive, hit and move style I see from fighters such as Samart and (at the extreme) Saenchai?

    By the way, I do realise that 6'3 at 175lbs is not exactly freakish. Not compared to 6'3 at 136lbs, anyway.
     
  17. daggers

    daggers Valued Member

    Sounds good in theory and maybe works in drill practice but in a real thai fight I wouldnt give my arms out to anyone risking an elbow ko just to get clinch
     
  18. fire cobra

    fire cobra Valued Member

    Daggers,whats your method(s) of getting into a clinch lock without getting elbowed?,YKWs method of Rhino guard seems similar to me as the what the Burmese fighters do?:)
     
  19. daggers

    daggers Valued Member

    Any other way than "rhino guard" :)
     
  20. daggers

    daggers Valued Member

    Seriously as I said earlier your hands gotta be above theirs . Or protect chin with shoulder and be quick to get in clinch , I use a ..'your either in or out' method, if your going for clinch then get in super fast and tuck your head in or keep distance
     

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