Any pure Silat practitioners around?

Discussion in 'Silat' started by taoizt, Sep 15, 2016.

  1. taoizt

    taoizt Valued Member

    What i notice is that a lot of JKD or KaliSilat or Silat/KravMaga practitioners are around here. That's perfectly fine, however Silat can indeed be practiced as a complete style, in stead of using small aspects of it.

    Anyone around to share some info on their particular style? There are plenty of styles like Setia Hati, Cimande, Cikalong, Serak, Gayong Lima, Silek Tuo Minang. I would like to know more about their respective way of training the basics for instance or their use of jurus and langkah.
  2. taoizt

    taoizt Valued Member

    Hmm too bad, no responses yet. I think Silat is an underestimated Martial Art with way too much focus on just using it as a part of another art.

    Any good Silat style should have their own specific system with

    - their own way of hitting
    - their own way of kicking
    - their own strategy and tactics
    - their own way to generate power
    - their own focus on punching (pukulan) or locking (kuncian), sweeps, ground play...etc.

    I think it deserves more attention, and from what i have seen up till now doesn't need to be mixed or is no less effective than JKD, Krav Maga, Kickboxing, Systema or whatever style you compare it with.
  3. glennlobo

    glennlobo Valued Member

    Pure Silat

    I think there are plenty of people who do purely silat. I could suggest that silat is a good enough art that others use it to fill in the gaps in their styles or arts.

    I have seen areas where one style explains another for me, so lincah helps me understand pukulan madura explains gayong.. for me.

    I think, in all honesty, that styles like harumau minangkabau add little to say Krav maga, where the more upright like gayong, pukulan and in your case BN would add more.

    without studying other arts, and thus tainting the silat you have, i think it is impossible to talk about styles having - their own ways of hitting, kicking, strategies, generating power etc
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2016
  4. Dylan9d

    Dylan9d Valued Member

    This is your personal view on things, maybe to mention that in the first sentence of that quote, because there are different definitions of a "good silat style". What's good for you doesn't have to be good for others.

    I wont respond any further since im practising a mix of a mix and it's practical enough for me and I'm definitly proud of it. :meditate:
  5. taoizt

    taoizt Valued Member

    Don't get me wrong Dylan9d I'm not saying that mixed styles are no good. I don't want to get into a discussion about that. So please don't try to steer it into this direction.

    But to make sure, this is not just a 'personal opinion' but can be the opinion of a whole style.

    I would however like to read some nice stuff about Cimande, Silek Tuo Minang etc. A style being 100% pure is always a slippery subject since styles develop through human interaction.

    There are however still styles that work as a 'complete' system already for more than 100 years, it's those I'm talking about.
  6. Dylan9d

    Dylan9d Valued Member

    I'm not trying to steer anything in a different direction just pointing out that one man's opinion doesn't have to be facts.

    And yes your question is clear, and yes I know there are styles that operate the same way as 100s of years ago.

    Pure, slippery indeed....
  7. glennlobo

    glennlobo Valued Member

    a complete silat style? one that covers ranges and weapons, and angles and body mechanics and all the things you talk about. problem is even your style doesnt operate the same way as it did 100 years ago. things change. For example silat and many of the silat organisations use a keris as their symbol.. it is THE weapon of silat, yet so few silat styles actually use it. I measure a silat style on that more than its recent adoption of the kerambit into its movements.
    A style a branch can be duped by its leader into thinking their way is the only or best way only to find out later that they have been conned.
    your original question is as flawed as it is loaded with the opportunity to tell people your style has its own way of doing things which is fine as that is your aim.

    every style has its own strategy and tactics, or there wouldnt be different styles- cekak believes the art of silat is in NOT moving, other styles in the moving, and the expression of that in seni, to hide and disguise movements.
    generating power, codifying movements, platforms, and so on are often ways to mystify and obfuscate the subject when the matter is basically simple.
  8. taoizt

    taoizt Valued Member

    Dylan, it's not a personal one man's opinion. The type of hitting of let's say Cikalong is distinctly different to the type in Cimande and again different than let's say a boxer. That's is not an opinion of me, but can be backed up by facts and anyone with at least some knowledge of those systems will confirm that.

    Although the end-goal is the same, still styles choose different routes to hit, kick, use close-combat tactics etc. Soon as you come further in your martial arts journey you will recognize this, and yes in the end the goal is the same, but people choose different roads.
  9. Dylan9d

    Dylan9d Valued Member

    In that perspective your are correct, thought you meant it from a personal perspective. My bad :hat:
  10. taoizt

    taoizt Valued Member

    That's ok Dylan9d, my goal is to get some constructive discussion going on the aspects and tactics of some of the older styles, and not get too hung up in words like 'pure', 'complete' or whatever you want to use for it.
  11. Dylan9d

    Dylan9d Valued Member

    Yeah about "pure", you can discuss 50.000 hours on the subject and still be miles apart, opinion wise

    It would be interesting to read up on what the opinions and experiences are from the older style practitioners.

    Glenn already made some nice posts but I know there are more guys practicing older styles here.
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2016
  12. taoizt

    taoizt Valued Member

    Apart from some insinuations you state, you strike an interesting point on for instance Cekak. I'm not familiar with it, don't know if it's an old style, but apparently it has a distinct tactic in NOT moving. Now that is something to learn more about and read about. Mostly the more original styles have really thought about these things and so built a system around it to train that. THAT is interesting. It's not about what is the best style, because in the end, it's the practitioner that has to perform.

    Instead of seeing this merely as a place to discuss or disagree with things, we might also see it as a place to share information. At least that goes for me in this case.
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2016
  13. glennlobo

    glennlobo Valued Member

    yes that is correct. Cekak's tactic is to NOT move. Then you look at style- harimau.. some try to move LIKE a tiger, some copy the principles of the tiger, same with Monyet, Pamonyet, cikalong etc. In Malaysia i was taught that Man was placed above the beasts so we should not try to emulate them. As we do not have the attributes of a cobra, or a python, a tiger or a monkey, it behoves us to fight like humans. As Mike Tyson says "everyone has a game plan till they get punched in the face".. it is your tactics after that that i find interesting.. many styles act like once they engage, it is the end for their opponent.. how do you deal with that?
  14. taoizt

    taoizt Valued Member

    Glenn can you tell me more about Cekak? Since NOT moving means the opponent will bring his stuff towards you..
  15. glennlobo

    glennlobo Valued Member

    Actually no i cant. i have been to their training a while ago and was shown some of their training.. come to think of it i think i actually trained with them on a session which was quite unusual since i know most branches only teach Muslims. I was privileged to train with them since i know some of the most senior members.. but it was 20 years ago. They do move some, obviously, but the aim seems to be just that- to bring people in. What is it the Americans say.. attack by drawing? it an alien concept to me in many ways. it is a very pupular style, being one of the "big 4" in Malaysia
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2016
  16. Gnosis

    Gnosis New Member

    Sorry can´t help it. :) But isn´t that exactly what you are doing? Using small aspects of it when asking for information on 7 different systems. :)
  17. taoizt

    taoizt Valued Member

    What do you mean. Can you elaborate?
  18. Gnosis

    Gnosis New Member

    "Silat can indeed be practiced as a complete style, in stead of using small aspects of it"

    I agree with that.

    Then you go on to do just that, using small aspects of Silat by asking about information from 7+ different Silat systems.

    You seems to think that mixing Silat with other systems is using small aspects of it. But I define using small aspects of it, if you mix information from different Silat systems together. :)
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
  19. taoizt

    taoizt Valued Member

    No i guess that's not what i meant. What i mean is that it would be nice if people write or tell something about their respective silat style. I'm not gonna use small aspects of other silat styles in my own style. It's more that a forum can be a nice place to share information instead of arguing about if Cimande is better than Serak or Bukti Negara is less than Cikalong. In the end everyone does what he likes and could write something about it, based on their enthusiasm.
  20. Gnosis

    Gnosis New Member

    I understand, I just found the contradiction funny. :)

    Silat is compared to other systems still a very closed world. You can find information on the internet or even here on MAP. But my experience is that there still are schools that do not share information with outsiders. You have to train if you want the information.

    Some people can fight without doing martial arts, so I find the debate about style vs style a mood point.


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