Any evident connection between Samurai and 'Samurang'?

Now this may seem like a pointless thread, but I cannot help but think why some people believe that Korea had some sort of influence in the creation of the Samurai through the so-called Samurang of the Goguryeo kingdom. I read about it through Wikipedia's article on Haidong Gumdo.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haidong_Gumdo

If you ask me as to where I stand on this, after all I read about samurai history I think this is absolute gobbledygook and a creation of Korea's nationalism. I have nothing against nationalism, but I have read about certain Koreans who distort history for their own self-validation, like this, and it's annoying.

Where do you people see of this?

 

Why not?

Korea was notable for having introduced many cultural aspects to Japan including Buddhism, geography, astronomy and calendars.

Oh, and let's not forget taekwondo.*

Japan was an island nation, so it's inevitable that migration of people and ideas would be channeled there through the Korean peninsula.

As for the particular article you cited, I haven't yet read it.

* That was a joke.

 

I thought the idea of samuri was basically like a hired swordman that swore an oath of loyalty to the death. I see this in many cultures, it made me think of the egyptian bodyguards for the preists and rulers of egypt.
Im not very well educated in all things asian so forgive me for chimeing in with sophmoric banter, Im bored.

 

Yes, but that is no excuse to falsify historical facts.

Buddhism was 'officially' introduced to Japan via the Kingdom of Baekje during the Asuka period, but there were monks that had come to Japan via China before that time.

As for geography and astronomy, I am not sure, though it seems the latter's origins are somewhat unknown. The calendar no doubt came via Korea but how the people came to Japan? There are various theories.

Anyway, these are beside the point of the topic. Linguistically, there is no relation. There are three Hanja to make the word Samurang, but Samurai uses one from where it originated as the verb 'saburau' meaning to serve.

 

Not necessarily.

My point was that Korea and Japan are so inextricably linked historically that it would be hard to say with any certainty where the origins of the samurai and samurang came from.

Besides - does it really matter?

 

As a lover of East Asian history, especially the military history, yes it does matter. Just because the two nationsare linked does not give a clear answer for the topic. I am the kind of person who doesn't tolerate nonsense. We're the kind of forum that doesn't tolerate masked profanity. Please review the terms of service to which you agreed.

 

Koreans aren't the first or only people to embellish the history behind their martial arts. And they certainly won't be the last. No need to worry about it too much.

Besides, that's a Wikipedia article - and not a very well edited one by the looks of it - which isn't exactly the most reliable source of information.

I mean, you said you don't tolerate this type of thing. I suppose the bare bones of my point is...

And?

 

Isn't this essentially a question about semantics and the definition of samurai?

 

And you are saying this is acceptable? Dude, I asked for an answer to clarify this debacle for some authenticity, not an argument. As for Wikipedia not being reliable, your knowledge is not that reliable either without any evidence or citation.

Forget it, this is getting nowhere and I am already regretting having asked this.

 

I'm just saying man, you're taking pretty seriously what is essentially the samurai version of the chicken and the egg.

 

Each nation will write their own history to prove it was right, most of the time. Especially in the times before mass communications either via telephone, letters, television, internet, radio, what have you. Both did arguably have strong influences on each other. Japan did have control over Korea for quite a while, albeit wasn't in the times of the samurai. Nowadays we can say that one country did this, one country did that, and prove it because we are all able to be linked through the interwebs in some way shape or form. Even those who don't use it. News is readily available for the masses. In the times when the Koreans claimed to have influenced the Japanese in the formation of the samurai could be shrouded in mystery. Let them believe what they believe.

This is like picking at Protestants and Roman-Catholics on who came first. You could argue some of the teachings of Martin Luther were almost identical to the Roman Catholic teachings still taught today and the radical protestants held the same beliefs as the ones who are Anti-Catholic or Baptists (not saying that Baptists and anti-catholic, just an observation of my going through highschool) but I digress.

Sure their teaching may be bogus and unfounded, but let those who believe that Koreans influenced the Japanese (given they actually didn't) believe it. It may tick off historians and East Asian history lovers who are passionate about the military aspects of it but, like Redcoat said, "And?"

I haven't heard of this, I mean I can't say that I care much about East Asian history, as much as I regret to break it to ya but that's just how it is. If its only a handful of people who believe this, let them go. If they're wrong, well they're wrong. If they're not, then more power to them. They aren't changing history as the majority of the world believe it.

 

Well excuse me for asking a stupid question.

Seriously, I want to dispel some myths here. Sure there have been Korean and Chinese influences, even though much of Korea's influence was primarily Sinitic anyway, but it annoys me when people embellish these things and lie when others want the real deal. Of course, the Japanese are no strangers to the same tactics.

 

-sigh- I did feel a blow to my ego and knowledge of military history when Redcoat said "And?", but sadly you are both right. It is a grand shame people still believe in these delusions, but what can I do? I am just a guy who prefers substance more than style. I believe one day people will be more aware of what is true in time.

Basically all I asked was if the ancient Koreans were involved in the beginnings of the Samurai. That was all.

 

That's probably the best answer I read. Yeah unfortunately we do not know, other than the three kingdoms of the peninsula and the dynasties made an influence to Japan which led to the Japanese developing their own. I suppose we will never know.

I want to apologise for any causes of confusion and frustration. I am a guy who just loves to study historical Eastern and Western martial arts. Thanks for the answers.

 

ArtofMu,

Look up the works of Karl Friday.

 

Will check him out. Cheers.

 

It could very well be that. It wouldn't be unheard of for the Koreans to play 'we invented it first game' a very popular pass time in the Far East for any country. Nation building and one-upmanship are part and parcel when everyone is jockeying for some type of recognition. In that respect the entire world plays this game.

I think if you get overly fussed on this you are in for a long and painful life. Yes it happens... but it happens in any culture. It's not as if the Japanese developed their entire culture in a vacuum. They have centuries of influence infused into their culture by both China and Korea. So it would hardly be surprising if the lines blurred on many issues. Not the least of which would be the issue of government and social class.

 

Funny thing though: Japanese arts and those who claim to be inspired by it (jiu-jitsu, pencak silat+karate, kenpo) don't mind much on being first to do things but rather "doing it better than others." Being second best is not on their list, and it shows.

Well, when in your national history you have nothing much except getting screwed over by your neighbors (in korea's case china and japan) and japan who screwed them over many times (hideyoshi and pre-WWII) just escaped getting conquered by a freak typhoon, no imperial power legacy, no cultural export to speak of in the pages of history (until recent times) and left to screw each other over the DMZ, they need to have something to soothe their national ego. Even if it means revisionist history.

Besides, let them nutride the samurai all they want. The original samurai were just imperial court attendants. The one whose martial legacy rings true are the bushi, those bumpkins of the countryside who waged war with their neighbors for influence and affluence. Do they want to associate with bushido? Good luck!

They want samurang, choson ninja and taekwon V. Different strokes for different folks.

 

I have no idea what any of that means...